5.0 healer catastrophizing is illogical - Change My Mind

Finally someone who is posting as a doomsayer with knee jerk reactions.

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Originally Posted by Nolagamer

Finally someone who is posting as a doomsayer with knee jerk reactions.

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I probably shouldn't respond since this seems like a trolling comment, but frankly how are these reactions 'knee jerk'? They're mostly well reasoned discussions based on what we know of the changes and the current state of the jobs. Yes, we haven't tried them out fully yet, but at the same time, we're pretty capable of understanding what's going on.

As soon as I see accusations of “doom and gloom” or “knee jerk” applied to constructive commentary it’s pretty obvious the person saying it is either 1). Ignorant to why the changes are causing such a response in the community or 2). A troll. If all you can contribute to the discussion are low effort and trolling comments it’s probably not going to add much to the discussion or change any minds.

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Originally Posted by CaesarCV

I probably shouldn't respond since this seems like a trolling comment, but frankly how are these reactions 'knee jerk'? They're mostly well reasoned discussions based on what we know of the changes and the current state of the jobs. Yes, we haven't tried them out fully yet, but at the same time, we're pretty capable of understanding what's going on.

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Yep anyone who's been around long enough clearly knows that the mechanics aren't going to change, only potencies will. So as long as we judge what we see based on mechanics alone and not potencies, we can make a pretty reasonable educated guess.

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Originally Posted by Cled-cat

As soon as I see accusations of “doom and gloom” or “knee jerk” applied to constructive commentary it’s pretty obvious the person saying it is either 1). Ignorant to why the changes are causing such a response in the community or 2). A troll. If all you can contribute to the discussion are low effort and trolling comments it’s probably not going to add much to the discussion or change any minds.

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There have been threads made about boycotting healers and talk about how healers are dead and that nobody is going to play them anymore.

You're honestly going to try and say that isn't all doom and gloom or knee jerk? Because that is both VERY doom and gloom and knee jerk.

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Originally Posted by Vivian_Vex

There have been threads made about boycotting healers and talk about how healers are dead and that nobody is going to play them anymore.

You're honestly going to try and say that isn't all doom and gloom or knee jerk? Because that is both VERY doom and gloom and knee jerk.

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Nice try, but if you would have read what I said in the very first sentence: “(when) applied to constructive commentary” then maybe you would have stopped to avoid sounding so ignorant. Putting words into people’s mouths like that isn’t cute. I didn’t “try to say” anything that inferred supporting boycotts or that healers are “dead”, that’s just a thinly-veiled strawman you tried to use against me, and not a very good one.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

AST Changes

[LIST][*]The idea that AST identity was tied to suboptimal card use needs to die in a hole and be buried there. You aren't an AST because you throw Boles on tanks, you're an AST because of mobility and timing.

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No I think people actually like a class with RNG which was the intended design mechanic in the first place. Yes people actually played the job for that mechanic because not only was it unique, once again people liked that RNG nature of it. That's how it was advertised, that's how everyone knew this job from the beginning of Heavensward.

You don't just take something that was clearly part of the job's identity and remove it and expect people to be happy with that.

So I've been playing AST at 70 for a while now. All I can think of is people played AST during leveling and it felt underpowered then, and they never actually payed attention to how it feels in actual relevant 80 content.

My heals feel fine, the new card system makes AST feel as active as a DPS, and while things like Divination and collective unconscious could absolutely use some shorter CDs, it's not this irredeemable garbage healer people are trying to claim it is.
People need to look past leveling dungeons. Everything feels like trash in them.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

So I've been playing AST at 70 for a while now. All I can think of is people played AST during leveling and it felt underpowered then, and they never actually payed attention to how it feels in actual relevant 80 content.

My heals feel fine, the new card system makes AST feel as active as a DPS, and while things like Divination and collective unconscious could absolutely use some shorter CDs, it's not this irredeemable garbage healer people are trying to claim it is.
People need to look past leveling dungeons. Everything feels like trash in them.

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The evidence with AST is very clear in the current EX trials—it is ~900 rDPS behind WHM. Even SCH is pulling more rDPS than AST by about ~400. AST’s healing is also weaker than both SCH’s and WHM’s healing. Its problems go well beyond dungeons, though dungeons are the content the majority of the playerbase will experience it in. Even so, I leveled WHM immediately after AST and it was a completely different experience: I Holy spammed more than I healed on WHM. Meanwhile, AST was definitely doing a lot of GCD healing. Even what little I’ve done on SCH I haven’t been GCD healing as often as AST was (or oGCD healing).

This isn’t even getting into optimizing AST, which is a pain what with Divination/Sleeve Draw windows requiring Lightspeed to execute effectively, which, in turn, removes versatility from a previously very versatile asset.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

SCH Updates

• Selene wasn't useful outside of openers and niche, I'm glad that button bloat is gone now.
• Shielding Changes remove Spreadlo - good? Spreadlo was broken and if it hadn't been removed you wouldn't be able to insta-crit free Adlo now on a timer not to mention the other amazing effects of Recitation like free Indom. Dear god, Recitation is just amazing.
• Dissipation automatically returns your fairy? More SCH QoL.
• SS got a HoT, Seraph is amazing and you can finally justify Ruin II outside of a double weave like... they should literally make the abbreviation for SCH QOL instead.
• SCH may not be top healer dps anymore and I understand it's hard to come down off of a pedestal you've been sitting on for literally years. I would say I'm sorry but I'm not. SCH is going to be able to rival AST for the sheer smoothness of its gameplay and it still brings a ton to the table.

So go ahead and change my mind. I'm open to actual dialog but if all you want to do is hitch yourself to the chicken little bandwagon that the sky is falling I've got no time for it. Specific concerns, rationalize your position and make me see it... because right now healers in 5.0 look like they're going to be really cool and my biggest concern is which one to go for first.

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• Selene should have been made more useful rather than removed altogether. In 2.0 people who were considered good Scholars used Selene more because the speed boosts were useful in party situations.Hell all the way around to SB I was still using Selene for a speed boost, I have a MNK in my group, they appreciated speed boosts. Their biggest gripe to the healer changes is that SCH and AST can no longer help them go fast. Just give Selene a little more utility beyond just speed boosts & AoE Esuna & a very niche Silence
• Removing spreadlo, I have no problem with this change.
• Dissipation is QoL, I don't deny that.
• SS got a HoT, I don't think SCH needed more buffs to their ability to heal
• SCH DPS I don't actually care about. What I care about is being bored in my downtime. By removing a DPS rotation they've made this boring. By making our healing OP over the years they've increased our downtime. So this is why SCH DPS changes are such a big issue. It hasn't prevented us from DPSing either, it's just made it more boring. Nerf our DPS by all means but at least give us something else to do instead.