Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

1. Are they a new player?

2. Did they recently change their UI/Binds or both?

3. Are they having a bad day or are they feeling sick?

Could be any of these things or more preventing someone from performing well. and to be fair most of the time I find it is.

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So you really want to say that 80% of the players are new, changed UI/keybinds, have a bad day or are sick...EVERY day? Come on you can't be serious.
Also if you see some sprouts you usualy cut them some slack, no one with a brain will call them out for beeing bad.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

1. Are they a new player?

2. Did they recently change their UI/Binds or both?

3. Are they having a bad day or are they feeling sick?

Could be any of these things or more preventing someone from performing well. and to be fair most of the time I find it is.

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What kind of content are we talking, here?
1. If it's a new player in dungeons, then I really don't care. This content is almsot throw-away. I occassionally make a challenge of trying to do these things solo. This is true for the MSQ-level Trials too. Not much a new/bad player could do outside of screwing up the pulls. For higher tier activities, like the harder Trials and Raids, it depends on the mission objective. If it's a learning party, I still expect a new player to pick up the ropes quickly as we go. If it's a clear party, absolutely unacceptable.

2. Similar vein to #1. Only, I don't permit UI/keybind to be an excuse for doing poorly in even a learning party.

3. If you were in the mood to play the activity in the first place, you are not having a bad day. This applies to sick people too. If you had the energy and desire to initiate the activity in the first place, then you're not so sick as to excuse interfering with my gameplay experience with bad play.

And this here is the reason people get affronted by bad players, to an almost personal level.
Bad players are not doing things on their own without impacting other players.
You cause a wipe that wasted the last 5 minutes of everyone's lives for an assinine reason, that's 35 collective minutes of other people's lives you have impacted. Because you want to excuse yourself being "bad".

So, should the seven players sacrifice, and happily, their life to make 1 person not have their little feelings hurt for being called a "bad" player?
Or should the bad player be responsible for themselves, and be made to address it?
The needs of the few are not greater than the needs of the many.
This argument looks very similar to why I dislike my taxpayer dollars going towards welfare.

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Originally Posted by ChaseNetwork

This argument looks very similar to why I dislike my taxpayer dollars going towards welfare.

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Let's not pull real life politics into a gaming forum, please. We certainly don't need that kind of drama.

I state right out if I am new to the dungeon, though I make sure to watch some sort of video or guide first. That way I get a really good idea of the dungeon, so if I do mess up, I can blame myself for being a derp.

I really try not to fiddle with my UI too much, but it can be a pain if you get more new skills. If that's the case, I suggest practicing on the open world, so you can get used to where the UI and keys are. Gosh darn muscle memory!

If you are feeling sick or mentally not there, and if sleeping isn't helping (I've been there) I suggest doing something like gathering or crafting, or something just to yourself. I relieve stress and mental issues by playing games, but I find it's much better to do solo, since other anon people don't know what you are going through, so will be arses to you.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

I state right out if I am new to the dungeon, though I make sure to watch some sort of video or guide first. That way I get a really good idea of the dungeon, so if I do mess up, I can blame myself for being a derp.

I really try not to fiddle with my UI too much, but it can be a pain if you get more new skills. If that's the case, I suggest practicing on the open world, so you can get used to where the UI and keys are. Gosh darn muscle memory!

If you are feeling sick or mentally not there, and if sleeping isn't helping (I've been there) I suggest doing something like gathering or crafting, or something just to yourself. I relieve stress and mental issues by playing games, but I find it's much better to do solo, since other anon people don't know what you are going through, so will be arses to you.

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I second this.

Joining a party, in my mind, carries with it a certain etiquette, much as being out in public does. It's simple politeness to put your best foot forward, the best possible foot anyway. That means having an idea of the dungeon mechanics (unless it's brand-new content), ensuring you can play your job effectively if not exceptionally, having gear of sufficient quality (no, meeting the minimum iLevel is not always enough), etc. In my opinion, this should apply to most all content past around, say, level 50.

People are, of course, free to disagree, but I think it's rather self-centered to suggest that your individual enjoyment and play style should take priority over the enjoyment of three to seven other people when you jump into group content. It's the real-life equivalent of never wearing deodorant, or, on the other end of the spectrum, wearing WAY too much perfume or scented aftershave. Fine to do in your own house; fine to do around your own friends. Not fine to do in random public outings or the workplace.

Let's not forget some players are so bad they're toxic, no matter how they manage to be so bad.

I find it interesting that "Was it an accident?" didn't make it onto the list. Obviously this doesn't apply to repeated errors, but people seem to fly into an apoplectic rage and start screaming about "the bads" over a mistake the first time it happens. It gives one pause, particularly when the person who messed up owns it and apologizes before they're even called out.

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Originally Posted by Chalbee

I find it interesting that "Was it an accident?" didn't make it onto the list. Obviously this doesn't apply to repeated errors, but people seem to fly into an apoplectic rage and start screaming about "the bads" over a mistake the first time it happens. It gives one pause, particularly when the person who messed up owns it and apologizes before they're even called out.

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Key problem with your statement is "people seem to".

"People seem to fly into an apoplectic rage" when they're offered advice on how to play their jobs. Like you, I only have anecdote and also like you, I used the weasel word "people" which has the connotation of "lots of people" but is technically correct even if its only two people.

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Originally Posted by Chalbee

I find it interesting that "Was it an accident?" didn't make it onto the list. Obviously this doesn't apply to repeated errors, but people seem to fly into an apoplectic rage and start screaming about "the bads" over a mistake the first time it happens. It gives one pause, particularly when the person who messed up owns it and apologizes before they're even called out.

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"Was it an accident" when people seem to not recognize basic things like stack markers, unable to play their job properly, or fail to realize that they're the reason why the party is failing? No one has even mentioned accidentally failing for the first time or making mistakes. Seems like you're just making more excuses for nonsprout players that just don't know how to play.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

So you really want to say that 80% of the players are new, changed UI/keybinds, have a bad day or are sick...EVERY day? Come on you can't be serious.
Also if you see some sprouts you usualy cut them some slack, no one with a brain will call them out for beeing bad.

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Just wondering, where are you getting this 80% number from? I don’t really do savage or ex fights but I normally clear everything I’ve run outside of some recent Burn runs where people are dying due to aoe damage, but normally things are fine and runs I get clear in pretty decent times, if 80% of players are bad shouldn’t I be clearing stuff more infrequently?