O5N is unfair for pure healer

*sigh* So this is the next debate for 2018, innit?

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

I dont like it at all, just keep me alive when im tanking it.
IT WOULD BE more beneficial to the party if i will be able to pull more than 3 groups of mobs and not die in the process.

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You're trying to sidetrack the discussion: no one is advocating neglecting healing your group and focusing on DPS instead. Everyone agrees that a healer should make sure their tank and group is safe first and then DPS if they're able to. (Of course mistakes sometimes happen to healers just like to everyone else, and those should be allowed as well.)

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Still you and the big part of the community require from the healers class to do more job than you do on the DPS class.

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Let me refer you to my previous post from this thread:

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Originally Posted by Taika

All roles are a bit different in what's required from them, and different players find different roles easy or hard or enjoyable or unpleasant. DDs may have only "one job" (which isn't even strictly true since they're expected to buff, debuff, raise etc. in addition to DPSing), but it takes a lot of effort pushing great DPS by keeping your rotation up, adjusting that rotation for each fight, and maximising your actions per minute while handing the fight mechanics (which also means things like minimising your movement and all other downtime while you're doing them). There's a huge difference in this game between a passable and a great DD player, which in my opinion does not merely show that most DD players are bad and/or lazy, but rather that it really takes some effort maximising your performance as one.

For healers and tanks, their basic priority job is much simpler, and the challenge of those roles comes more from minimising the effort you need to put into handling that part of your job while maximising your usefulness to your group with DPS. If a healer or a tank would just heal or tank, they would be simply using much less abilities and much less often than the DDs. Which is why they are expected to participate in the DPS part too (after first handling the primary part of their role).

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So no, healers are not asked to do more than others. They are asked to do as much as others, which means contributing by DPS if and when they would be contributing significantly less than other party members when only filling their primary job. I once tried to only heal and do nothing else in expert dungeon in this game. I ended up being active only 17% of the dungeon while the rest of my team was active for 70%+ of the dungeon (and this was with a max pulling tank who had never tanked the dungeon before and had no gear from that patch at all - I took a video of the experiment if you wish to see what it looked like).

What is being asked for is that instead of me spending that 53% of activity difference standing still, doing /icam or /mandervilledancing away, I will do something useful for my group. And since there isn't anything useful but DPS to do (since I'm already covering the healing requirements), I should DPS. Simple as that.

And while my experiment is old, someone did a similar one recently in Skalla as a Scholar, ending up with only 9% activity when they did nothing but healing. So here are a couple of examples of how low the healing requirements can be, now can you show some proof of the situations in which healers absolutely have to do nothing but healing? :)

Aaaand people took the thread seriously. Oh my

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Originally Posted by SilverObi

Aaaand people took the thread seriously. Oh my

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To be fair, while the OP was probably a troll, this is a problem with some players who think that healers shouldn't have an emphasis on DPS....

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Originally Posted by SilverObi

Aaaand people took the thread seriously. Oh my

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I never took the OP seriously.
But, the people who've replied I"ve taken seriously.

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Originally Posted by Taika

I have healed almost every single content in this game since 1.0 (only current patch, Coil Savage and Ultimate excluded) and I have never ever met a tank so bad I would have not had any time to DPS. Of course there are situations which require a lot of healing, but looking at standard runs rather than exceptions, it is clear healers should have plenty of time to DPS in all content.

I don't know if you've played healer in this content yourself, but in many low level dungeons you don't really need to cast many heals at all during pulls. In Sastasha you mentioned as an example, I once watched my partner heal it in full-time cleric stance (pre-SB) using nothing but Essential Dignity. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/i...es/biggrin.png

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In my years of playing.
Once, maybe twice, I've come across a situation where I just couldn't find the time to dps.

I'm not sure if the tank was just horribly geared, or just horrible...
I just couldn't find 5 seconds of time to pop out some damage before the tank's hp would plummet to next to nothing, or nothing.

And, this was back before stormblood, so I had to work around Cleric Stance timing.
I tried several times at the beginning of the run to sneak in dps with Cleric, but I just couldn't work around that tank and cleric stance.

It was just less frustrating to focus on keeping that tank alive than to mess with cleric stance.

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

And the most baffling is when they overestimate the damage done by a healer or underestimate how bad can be a DF party. It is more likely they're now DPS who never healed a DF party since the 1st Umbral Era and never were on a bad party or think that people standing on the bad is just a legend.

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Funny that you say this when a WHM spamming Holy easily out-bursts most DPS jobs in large pulls.

Healers in this game were never designed to be "pure healers".

read all the posts in this thread and I am quite literally stunned at how many healers think they should not deal damage during encounters. Do you not get bored just... watching?

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

To be fair, while the OP was probably a troll, this is a problem with some players who think that healers shouldn't have an emphasis on DPS....

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Which I can understand since it can be a foreign concept if you come from other games. But even me as someone who in the days of ARR was completely against healers needing to dps, I've come around to see it as a very nice bonus. It's something that people can't be forced into doing and they need to hopefully discover for themselves the benefits. Standing around just topping off a health bar gets boring and the devs went and made it even less stressful to throw in some damage.

Food for thought
A: healers can't get through job quests without doing damage.
B: Healers who just stand around doing nothing but healing make things very slow.


Conclusion - your doing it wrong if your not doing damage.

HOWEVER - Healers should prioritize healing...THEN...damage when nothing left to heal.

If you go full DPS...your doing it wrong.
If you go heals only....your doing it wrong.

Balance it out. It's not that hard.
:)

Just remember....DPS is SECONDARY....NOT PRIMARY...you are STILL a healer.

Geez, these "pure" healer topics are always so full of utter nonsense.

Its not an issue of game design. In every game with a healer it will always be advantageous to prefer the players who can do their main job while contributing extra utility (in the form of dps/raid utility or whatever) over players who can only do their main job.

Also, your job isnt to keep a group at 100% HP. Get over it. The best possible theoretical run would end with everyone living with 1 HP.

Healers that only dps are either : Lazy, Selfish, or Incompetent

Note- Incompetent is not an insult here, a person can go from being incompetent to competent. Possibly easier than changing from lazy or selfish.

If you get kicked or get greifed for being lazy or selfish that is on you. If it is for your incompetence than it is possibly on you.

It is a fact, that given the choice, players whose primary goals are to clear content will take healers who can dps and heal effectively over "pure" healers. So please look forward to having your slots taken by those healers.