[spoilers]3.2 MSQ Discussion/Reaction thread

Nalien, I want to say that you're awesome and I wish I could like posts more then once.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

We actually... don't know that's all they'd tell us. That's all you want to take from it, OK, but we should have both sides of the story before we decide on a course of action. While we know what they want, but not why or the whole story behind the split of Light and Dark. All we got from Hydaelyn was "I banished Zodiark because he wanted more power;" that is extremely simplistic and severely lacking in detail. In this game, it's never that simple. We don't have the whole story yet, and while I have no intention of joining the Ascians or sacrificing anyone, it wouldn't hurt to hear them out.

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Here are the facts: The Ascians want to revive Zodiark. To revive Zodiark they need to initiate Rejoinings. To initiate Rejoinings, they need Calamities. I currently don't see how all this can add up to anything but a Very Bad Thing for Eorzea and the world as a whole likely.

We don't know the full story, true. But ask yourself this: What would knowing that change? Would it really be enough to divert us from Hydaelyn? Or would it just strengthen our resolve to her. Look at Urianger, for example. He apparently learned some degree of the truth from Elidibius, but when talking to him in the Waking Sands his reaction can be summed up as 'Yeah, this changes nothing.'

The story from the Ascians would likely be even more twisted then the one we heard from Hydaelyn. The Ascians, after all, have a proven themselves to have an extremely vicious manipulative streak. Whatever they say would be tailored to get try to get us to believe that the Calamities are 'nesscary' or something along those lines.

Hydaelyn's story may be a simplified version, but I am far more inclined to believe her version of events, by virtue of her being more trustworthy then the Ascians.

We have have killed the servants, we have stopped their plans. But things are getting worse, not better. The question seemingly being asked by the events after Minfillia is are we willing to become worse people for it?

Out of Hydelyn's actions we might see us being torn between our title and our own lives. We do not know the nature of Minfillia's "sacrifice" other than how effective it is(n't) and comparable acts of magically forced servitude, like tempering.

imo, Something is not adding up. Which is partially why I agreed with saving Estinien(more like, I responded "we will find a way to save him" as opposed to attributing it to a purpose or being mute on the matter.). The Scions are risking the loss of their perspective, and we need to do something to pull them back from it.

That, and I think we enjoyed the time with just Alphinaud, Ysayle, and Estinien, with the burden of being the WoL and a Scion just farther away than it is now. To have that moment of freedom crushed at the last "in the name of Eorzea/Hydelyn ", would probably be more than our characters can stand. I can think of no worse injustice than being forced to applaud the same deception we exposed in Heavensward.

Taking a break from the Minfilia topic, I was doing some considering on Unukalhai.

I think we can confirm that totally-not-Second-Best-Ascian-or-his-servant doesn't want the Garleans messing with the Triad either, not just the Primals, as was confirmed before. So basically, he wants them dealt with, no touchy by anyone (Including Thordan, since he caused this mess in the first place and we're stuck helping Eli clean up after Lahabrea and Igeyorhm. Yes Moose, I'm bringing that up again.). The Scions weren't there to see him interact with Regula, it was well within his options to just ignore him or walk away. But he didn't, implying the Garleans are an annoyance as well.

That leads us to: Why?

I have some thoughts that can be considered somewhat baseless musings.

Elidibus (who doesn't always represent all of the Ascians) recognizes that you cannot have one without the other. Hydaelyn and Zodiark must both exist for his goals to come to fruition - As it once was, as it ever should have remained. I'd say the same is necessary for Hydaelyn as well; either we have a Promathia-Altana creation lovers thing going on with H/Z, or Hydaelyn recognizes Zodiark as an equally essential part of existence - which I believe is more likely.

So, he is basically asking us to help keep Hydaelyn on life support, since he knows we're good at what we do and he can then turn his attentions on objectives that are more important to him. It's safer to leave the Slayer of Gods to slay Gods while either he (or his servant) oversees the process than having us or the Garleans bumbling around like idiots and release them on the world.

Belated edit: It's extremely irritating that these aren't considered cutscenes by the journal. SE, SE plz. I just want to see Unukalhai being cute.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Belated edit: It's extremely irritating that these aren't considered cutscenes by the journal. SE, SE plz. I just want to see Unukalhai being cute.

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This. At least I capped it.

I suspect Eldibus has an Exdeath gambit up his incredibly long sleeves, honestly, and that he will drop the last F of BFF once he's done with us. He wants to claim something in the reunited world, most likely a godhead, but who can say, really? His machinations are not our first priority, though, so if his assistance will see us through the current storm and minimize damage on both sides, that's a good thing.

For all we know, we may end up in a Soul Sacrifice Delta situation where we end up actively trying to elect our frenemy as a replacement to the current divine order.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The WoL can't really afford to be suspicious of every single person that they encounter though.

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It would still be a good idea for a famous hero to err on the side of caution until they can be reasonably certain of the people they interact with.
I guess with the WoL being both invincible and dumb, it isn't surprising what happened.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

This. At least I capped it.

I suspect Eldibus has an Exdeath gambit up his incredibly long sleeves, honestly, and that he will drop the last F of BFF once he's done with us. He wants to claim something in the reunited world, most likely a godhead, but who can say, really? His machinations are not our first priority, though, so if his assistance will see us through the current storm and minimize damage on both sides, that's a good thing.

For all we know, we may end up in a Soul Sacrifice Delta situation where we end up actively trying to elect our frenemy as a replacement to the current divine order.

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The bolded upsets me, but it's probably true. He'll always remain in my heart, though.

That being said. . .
Unukalhai actually has new dialogue!
He elaborates a bit on himself:

I see that you still question the true purpose behind my presence here. I am but my master's servant, bid to accept Urianger's invitation to ally with the Scions. There are those such as Archon Y'shtola, of course, who are sensitive to sudden shifts (can someone with another language of the game retranslate the "sudden shifts" part? That's a really odd phrasing, even for an Ascian), and remain suspicious of my motives. . .We are bound by common enemies - by the threat of the Warring Triad and the Garlean Empire. Are such ties not sufficient enough to explain my actions, Warrior of Light?

Which doesn't really tell us anything other than directly confirming he doesn't want the Garleans near the Triad. He could be using fancy wordplay saying "my master's [Zodiark's] servant" rather than "my master's [Elidibus'] servant." It does make me wonder how active a role Urianger is playing here, though.

Also, that book on the table is his Journal, supposedly. He likes us so much he's writing about us in his free time - and that's not even a joke or sarcasm! He says so. Or he's inscribing fate.

If you guys didn't check out Unukalhai's notes on the table, he explains Sephirot's abilities quite well, he can "induce spontaneous growth in organisms (including himself.)"

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

It would still be a good idea for a famous hero to err on the side of caution until they can be reasonably certain of the people they interact with.
I guess with the WoL being both invincible and dumb, it isn't surprising what happened.

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Be honest, the only reason you had to question a maid in a tavern bringing you a drink is that she had a voice actress.

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A hero, tried and true.
If only I had possessed such strength...

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What are you implying their, Kidibus?

"You Garleans never learn"... Makes it sound like he has history with Garlemald... Wonder if Elidibus just took in an orphan, or if Kidibus is taking a leaf from the Bravely Default school of stupidity while stuck reliving the same events... I suggested Elidibus cosplaying Airy once before, right? Somehow it seems even more fitting now...

I'd hope Kidibus is just an orphan though... It would make for a nice conclusion, given we have the Doman Adventurer's Guild right there (where any of them orphans? This game needs more "You're an orphan too?!" moments), plus Elidibus doing something good? I need to see that... So far the moonmen have all be comically evil and utterly unredeemable...

Elidibus is no doubt playing us like fools. I'm not entirely sure I buy into the idea that the 'mini' Elidibus is actually Elidibus. If he is then he's clearly playing us like fools. What do Ascians do best? They sow the seeds of distrust and chaos to achieve their goals.

Someone must have told the Garleans what Thordan was planning. How else would they know to pursue him, especially when only a handful of Thordan's most loyal followers knew what he was up to? Elidibus also clearly mentions that the Garleans will 'play their part'. Which suggests that he has plans for them. It's highly likely that they're not allies given that their goals do not align. Garlemald throwing its weight behind the WoL and the Scions would screw up pretty much any plan the Ascians had in mind, thus I suspect that the future conflicts with Garlemald will be completely manufactured.

It's also worth noting that Garlemald as a whole is not responsible for what Nael or Gaius did. They were wildcards and not supported by Garlemald as a whole. I just hope they're not going to be exploited as generic villains who will be painted as incompetent - because that is very much a recent viewpoint and I don't feel as if their might and influence has been done justice so far with that in mind.

Don't let my musing on Unu stop any discussions, or any other ones, I don't want to control a free-for-all-thread.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

"You Garleans never learn"... Makes it sound like he has history with Garlemald...

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I get the feeling it's less that and more that he has seen the type of actions before in history. I also would not be surprised if the Ascians are working in the background in Garlemald at the moment. I felt like he was expressing frustrating with the type of individual Regula is more than anything.
Forgive the tiny tangent, but that's part of the reason why I see Lahabrea as so bitter and spiteful to mortals. When one works with the worst, most power-hungry mortal representatives for millennia, I think I'd become spiteful as well. The same goes for Elidibus, hence why he does appreciate it when he has to work with a decent individual like our character, something he actually mentions to us.

As for actually being a kid, well, as cute as Unukalhai's actions are, if he's actually Elidibus' servant, that implies he's a Lesser Ascian. Lesser Ascians only inhabit corpses. Yeah. You better hope it's actually Elidibus, or you're not getting your happy ending.

Now that we have his journal though, that's his death flag. He's leaving us, probably at the end of 3.X. For me the best possible path would him actually being a Lesser Ascian, so SE demonstrates that they aren't all evil and can be sympathetic, despite our differing situations, since I doubt we're going to be BFFs with Eli until the game shuts down. I could be wrong, though! Things can change. R-right?

Anyway, if Unukalhai isn't related to Elidibus, you (general you, not specific) have three things to explain to me:
1. His name and why it is directly related to Serpentarius, the "13th," which Elidibus represents - namely, he's a star in Serpens, which is the serpent part of "serpent-bearer."
2. Urianger's support, despite saying things like "he's on our side - for now."
3. Him directly quoting Elidibus from 2.55 repeatedly ("The fate of this very star.")