The protect us from ourselves argument is bull. I don't need protection from the community at large. If anything like your PF examples happen, then it's a good way to weed out parties/people you probably don't want to run with anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toguro
Also the enemity bar is a poor judge of dps. It can tell that some random dps is just auto attacking or other blatantly obvious scenarios but hrm, pet classes, enemity reductions, multiple targets, tank dps, healer dps, ability to determine what secondaries produce 50 more dps, minor changes in skill usage (like where to pop my potion in my opener). Sure none of this matters in loot piñata content but that's not really what we are asking for it to be used in. Because void ark? Lol I don't think anyone seriously has that in mind when asking for a parser.
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12-01-2015, 06:47 AMKazumac
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12-01-2015, 06:53 AMArrakAnd what differs that from server reputation, FC tag, lodestone profile, someone in that group just thinking your friend did poorly in a previous run? I know players that won't take people into a PF group based on FC tag. Those players suck, but it happens. You don't need parsers or a scoreboard to make players assholes. People have plenty of ways to measure a player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toguro
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12-01-2015, 07:03 AMRose-Wild
I really wish i could see everyones DPS on PS4. But atleast being able to see mine would be a good upgrade.
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12-01-2015, 07:07 AMToguroI used the 3rd boss in Void Ark because that boss is like a sponge... literally. You just hit him and stuff. Do idols, you can barely damage him, destroy idols, hit him, adds come out, cant hurt him because of stoneskin, kill adds, hit him, fight over. There is no excuse for for a ilvl205 MNK to be in 6th place without death on the boss. Sure like others have said, it's not always accurate but neither are parsers. But I never see people use Quelling Strikes or that other stuff. Pets? Their damage would increase the bar a bit if it were included but not by that muchQuote:
Originally Posted by Kazumac
A1/A1S is another example I should use then.. BLM(No quelling strikes used) is in 7th place on Faust. They suck.
If I can beat a ilvl204 DRG or ilvl208 MCH as an ilvl187 MCH(true story), they 're doing something wrong.. -
12-01-2015, 07:25 AMFourbestintoner
I don't believe anyone is going to expect 1500dps from randoms, I only want to be allowed to give tips without someone making a scene, crying parse and menacing a report to the gms, aka the hurt feelings police, I wouldn't be a dick about it and doubt most people would, unless the person being criticized would first.
And if you're doing 500dps in Alex savage... Just what are you doing there? A hardcore raid for hardcore raiders, when you don't even know how to play your class. -
12-01-2015, 07:28 AMKazumacProve my point much? You don't know b/c you can't see it. It is not an insignificant portion of a pet class' dps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toguro
You point on weeding out brain dead dps using the enemity bar is valid but it isn't good at fine tuning things such as rotations or things that give small percentage differences in dps. Additionally if the Enemity spread from the tank to the dps is large the scale becomes very skewed to be able to differentiate with any level of detail. Workable for some cases hardly that useful. Lastly it is only useful in a group scenario to give relative dps (enemity) between players. Not a good tool for introspective improvement. -
12-01-2015, 08:17 AMAomine1992Lmao this so muchQuote:
Originally Posted by AlphaSonic
I don't understand why ppl are so sensitive.
All I see is complaints about awful players shouldn't be called out um no they should absolutely be called out respectively of course and a explanation of Why they are not even close to being optimal I.e rotation changes and cd management, it sucks for them and they feel bad in the beginning but it's all constructive criticism and if they cant take that then play a single player game....
Parsers are tools so don't blame idiocracy on a tool -
12-01-2015, 09:01 AMKosmos992kArrak, I don't care about the SafeSpace argument, I did not bring it up, nor do I advocate such things. In my view SafeSpaces become nothing more than ego driven echo chambers where our own opinions are constantly reinforced by their own echo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrak
I have *NOT* suggested that people should be free of criticism. Constructive criticism is an important part of learning what we need to improve, and subsequently improving. That's part of any multi-player game, and we can only improve if we a) want to and b) seek information and advice about our performance. A parser is but one possible source of information. And to be honest, I'm not going to argue for or against parser in this topic or any other (though previously I have).
As I have previously discussed in other threads though, critiquing others can actually be very problematic. This is because when people are receiving criticism, their first reaction is generally to become defensive. If they perceive that they are being attacked in some way, many, perhaps the majority of people react by either going on the attack themselves or they clam up and leave. There is a near infinite library of information about conflict resolution, communication styles, and emotional IQ that can illuminate this for you if you do the research. If a player being critiqued reacts poorly and goes on the attack, we both know it can escalate way out of proportion.
However, I have deliberately not said that there should be no parser, because as I have said over and over before, I can see a role for players using a parser for their own personal benefit in end-game content. In this topic I talked of player harassment in a general way, because player harassment related to parsers is not always a jerk armed with a parser abusing a lowbie DPS.
If players feel emboldened by an official parser, to offer more frequent and direct critiques, I believe that the long term impact will be to make the game feel more competitive and a lot less pleasant for people who have no desire to play this as a competitive sport, don't raid, and are content being able to clear Solo content and light party dungeons with ease. The consequence of that is people leaving the game. No online game needs to do something that actively drives players fro they game. My concern is that there is the potential for parser use to do just that - if it is not handled very well by SE, and responsibly by the players.
Since you mentioned GMs again, let me refer you to my previous comment about GMs not being terribly helpful unless the offense is completely egregious. It seems, sometimes, as if the GMs have been told to take a hands off approach and any matter that falls into the category of player disputes will be left to players to resolve themselves. Just look at the previous instances of theft from FC chests, and the total lack of action taken - because it's a matter of he said/she said. Without clear cut abuse that breaks the terms of service, a GM will do very little, at most warning someone verbally.
I'm not arguing for or against parsers. I only replied in this topic because someone else was essentially telling someone who feared possible harassment to "get over" it, which I felt was dismissing the possibility for abuse. Subsequently another poster stated that the fear of harassment had been "brought up and disproven in literally every single" instance where this was discussed. I simply pointed out that you cannot disprove an emotion or feeling that another person has about something. If people fear harassment, it's a legitimate issue, and who are we to dismiss it? I pointed this out and well, you know the rest.
People can attempt to redefine the discussion again and again, but there is rarely an attempt to discuss or answer the fears that some have over harassment, that goes beyond telling them to 'get over it', 'grow a thicker skin', ''go play something else' or 'git gud'. Tossing in clips from South Park lampooning SafeSpaces and pointless SJWs doesn't in any way answer the concerns either. If anything it seems to dismiss and belittle the concern and those expressing it. Hardly a constructive of compelling argument that fear of harassment is groundless, is it?
It really makes me laugh to myself when these discussions happen, and rather than actually talk about the issues raised, we instead see the same old re-hashed assertions that do *nothing* more than drown out the concern. Ironic that people touting parsers as constructive tools have such an inability to recognize real issues and discuss them constructively. -
12-01-2015, 09:33 AMRemenantStrife
I play on PS4 also and would love a parser for myself, sometimes I will ask others to check my DPS if I want to try something new on a dummy, in raid time I'll ask about my numbers sometimes also, honestly though even if a parser was in the game I don't think I would use it in dungeons or something like Alexander normal or void ark as you could go into those without people pulling half their DPS and get through the fights fine.
Yet in something such as Alex Savage where if someone is pulling lower DPS could mean hitting an enrage timer, yeah I want to see my DPS and I would like to have that information available to me without ask who is parsing and can I get the information on how I am doing. Even typing that it sounds ridiculous to realise that others have more information available to them on my performance than I do. -
12-01-2015, 09:42 AMDerio
However there is a thin line where a parser is constructive criticism, to where a parser is community damaging. Like appropriate places like Alex Savage compared to not so appropriate like high level dungeon roulette.