Dungeon item. Why?

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10-09-2011, 12:30 AM
Aenarion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murugan

I don't hate crafting but you people are ridiculous with your statements that somehow equipment made from regular world drops (which can be obtained by low levels in many cases), and gathering is somehow more arduous a task than getting a group of well coordinated people to do some of the hardest content in the game.

leave me out of your arguments, if you want to quote me, actually read what I said and was replying to, which is only to address someone who seems to think all crafters are bots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frein

Want me to PM you a link to a crafting bot? I think there's also a fishing bot there. There is no combat bot, however, and most definitely not one capable of group coordination and beating end game content.

Also, yes, I hate crafting. Doesn't everyone?

Oh, I don't deny that there are bots out there, but YOU are the one claiming that half of ALLcrafters are botters, so where's your f-ing proof? Also, you may want to rank up on your search skill there, there are most certainly combat/claim bots, I've seen them working since the first weeks of collector's release, a bunch of people claiming hoverflies in cassieopeia.

and stop trying to backtrack, You basically said that crafting needs to be neutered because it can be botted, then by the same logic gathering and normal combat also needs to be neutered because they too can be botted amirite?

and no Frein, not everyone hates crafting, but it certainly shows where your bias lies.
10-09-2011, 12:39 AM
TonyMontana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aenarion

leave me out of your arguments, if you want to quote me, actually read what I said and was replying to, which is only to address someone who seems to think all crafters are bots.

Oh, I don't deny that there are bots out there, but YOU are the one claiming that half of ALLcrafters are botters, so where's your f-ing proof? Also, you may want to rank up on your search skill there, there are most certainly combat/claim bots, I've seen them working since the first weeks of collector's release, a bunch of people claiming hoverflies in cassieopeia.

and stop trying to backtrack, You basically said that crafting needs to be neutered because it can be botted, then by the same logic gathering and normal combat also needs to be neutered because they too can be botted amirite?

and no Frein, not everyone hates crafting, but it certainly shows where your bias lies.

Owned.
/10char
10-09-2011, 12:40 AM
Physic

thing is, the investment for materia is huge.

If materia cant make the best gear its pointless. it requires multiple disciplines, more luck and time than anything else in the game.

Far as crafters, yeah raid people want to be the best, but it has to work with crafters, or crafting is useless. Maybe they need to give something different out to raiders, maybe skills. Or have raid gear turn into unique materias. I really cant expect that in THIS game, a raider's investment in beating a level should totally and always trump the many hours multiple players put into a crafted item.

Maybe they need some sort of raid equivalent for gatherers or crafters.... doubt we ll ever see that
though

far as the buying best gear thing, i really dont thin most raiders care about that, they just want to control the best. Afterall, ffxi, and here, raiders sell drops, rare ex or otherwise. How different is that really than a gatherer selling his lucky roll, and hours leveling, or a crafter selling his HQ investment. Probably not that much really.
10-09-2011, 12:43 AM
Klive

Yoshi has made it quite clear he is try to make a game where a person can play anyway he likes in FF14.
If I want to make an awesome weapon, I can.
If I want to raid and take a monster's awesome weapon, I can.
If I want to solo grind to get my gear, I can.
If I want to join a group to grind/raid for gear, I can.
and the list goes on.

But, why should raiders be THE ONLY people entitled to good gear? Maybe someone just doesn't like that particular raid and doesn't find it to be fun. That makes him not worthy of nice gear? What if someone happens to enjoys the other aspects of the game that are not raiding more? Since they don't like raiding, they should never get nice gear?

What about the DoL and DoH now?

SE does not support botting and IT IS CHEATING. I know there are botters, but we cannot balance a game for cheating.
Anyways, is it fair that crafted gear should always be worse than the 'raid' gear? That makes the crafter, which is its own CLASS, a little less worth while. Why shouldn't a craft be able to put hard work and effort into making wonderful weapons with materia. Heck, I'm leveling my goldsmith just so I can have the pride of making my own super weapon.

Lastly, the current r45 'raid', the gear was made prior to the materia system and new crafting systems. How about we wait to see the new raids and new gear drops before we panic. Besides, all gear will be 'worthless' given a long enough time line.
10-09-2011, 12:44 AM
Frein

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aenarion

Oh, I don't deny that there are bots out there, but YOU are the one claiming that half of ALLcrafters are botters, so where's your f-ing proof? Also, you may want to rank up on your search skill there, there are most certainly combat/claim bots, I've seen them working since the first weeks of collector's release, a bunch of people claiming hoverflies in cassieopeia.

Where's your proof that half of all L50 crafters haven't used bots? Obviously I can't give you any statistics or anything. And sure, there are bots that can stand in one spot, tab around for targets and auto-attack them down. That's pretty much all they can do, however.

Quote:

and stop trying to backtrack, You basically said that crafting needs to be neutered because it can be botted, then by the same logic gathering and normal combat also needs to be neutered because they too can be botted amirite?

and no Frein, not everyone hates crafting, but it certainly shows where your bias lies.

I never said they need to be neutered. I essentially said that crafting should not define end game because doing it doesn't require participation in end game activities. And yes, I do think normal combat should be neutered so that you can't simply grind your way into the best [insert whatever] in the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klive

Anyways, is it fair that crafted gear should always be worse than the 'raid' gear? That makes the crafter, which is its own CLASS, a little less worth while. Why shouldn't a craft be able to put hard work and effort into making wonderful weapons with materia. Heck, I'm leveling my goldsmith just so I can have the pride of making my own super weapon.

That's fine as long as the materials for your super weapon come from difficult content like raids and aren't simply a result of time invested in robot tasks.
10-09-2011, 01:03 AM
weeble

sounds like warhammer, you can buy all the pieces of gear with gold now from each dungeon so no one does dungeons. so pointless. i would agree with op, this needs fixing big time, crafting isn't the main part of game, specially for most people. half don't even craft or care for it, this is a game ...it's about battle not aol chat and gear exchange from others.

they should of made half the slots craft and half drops so it's 50-50 or something to that extent. i get crafting needs to be important ..im a crafter as well as mele, but the game to me is nothing with out the mele. maybe mmo's need to stick with making crafts all usable items like potions/1time spells/food/arrows, what have you. but either way i'm sure they will fix this. but you can easily see the direction this game can go after launch, few months in if game is bad and anyone with a brain leaves, this is what the game will end up totally being. but either way i don't think we will get that far. just saying i can see this.
10-09-2011, 01:12 AM
grandm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frein

Where's your proof that half of all L50 crafters haven't used bots? Obviously I can't give you any statistics or anything. And sure, there are bots that can stand in one spot, tab around for targets and auto-attack them down. That's pretty much all they can do, however.

I never said they need to be neutered. I essentially said that crafting should not define end game because doing it doesn't require participation in end game activities. And yes, I do think normal combat should be neutered so that you can't simply grind your way into the best [insert whatever] in the game.

That's fine as long as the materials for your super weapon come from difficult content like raids and aren't simply a result of time invested in robot tasks.

^^ i like raiding, and i think us raiders should get the best things in the game. i don't want to share the good stuff with the players that don't like to raid.

oops mummy i just dropped my dummy :P
10-09-2011, 01:14 AM
Godking

You should probably wait to see if the new raid gear (whenever it comes out) is socketable or not. THEN you can complain.
10-09-2011, 01:23 AM
Budi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klive

Yoshi has made it quite clear he is try to make a game where a person can play anyway he likes in FF14.
If I want to make an awesome weapon, I can.
If I want to raid and take a monster's NOT awesome weapon, I can.
If I want to solo grind to get my gear, I can.
If I want to join a group to grind/raid for gear, I can.
and the list goes on.

But, why should raiders be THE ONLY people entitled to good gear? Maybe someone just doesn't like that particular raid and doesn't find it to be fun. That makes him not worthy of nice gear? What if someone happens to enjoys the other aspects of the game that are not raiding more? Since they don't like raiding, they should never get nice gear?

No. There is no point in raiding or dungeons anymore because the gear that drops is much worse than crafted gear, because crafted gear alone is as good as the dungeon gear even without Materia. Now If you add Materia its on a completely new level and the items can't even be compared seriously.

Materia should not give that huge stats as they do now, and the crafted gear shouldnt give that huge amount of stats either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klive

Lastly, the current r45 'raid', the gear was made prior to the materia system and new crafting systems. How about we wait to see the new raids and new gear drops before we panic. Besides, all gear will be 'worthless' given a long enough time line.

The current dungeon/stronghold gear is still A LOT worse than crafted gear. And by a lot I mean the stats materia gives you (which is a lot).

AND the raid gear is not sockable... why should new one be and the old one not? Vintage gear is sockable, so they didn't only add it to new gear, but to CRAFTED GEAR ONLY.
10-09-2011, 01:40 AM
Aenarion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frein

Where's your proof that half of all L50 crafters haven't used bots? Obviously I can't give you any statistics or anything. And sure, there are bots that can stand in one spot, tab around for targets and auto-attack them down. That's pretty much all they can do, however.

Oh my, you don't think before you post do you? the burden of proof lies with the one making the statement - it is up to you to back up what you're claiming, not me to disprove what you said. It's doubly hilarious when you flat out admitted that you don't even have anything that can back up your claim. It'd be like me claiming that aliens lived on Mars, with nothing to back up the statement - should I be considered right until you can disprove my statement?

and yes, more back-peddling please, I'm not the one who made the statement "There are no combat bots" here.

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