Break the Trinity System Please

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Originally Posted by Inflorescence

Do I think that support roles could exist in FFXIV? Absolutely, but only because it does an incredible job of making each class play differently. Playing PLD and then switching to WAR doesn't just change your animations and damage/enmity values, it actually makes you completely relearn how to play the game. And when you do learn, you find yourself in the exact same position; you find out that the classes are, in fact, completely balanced. Every other role in the game shares this balance, and it's that mastery of understanding how to balance classes while providing a totally unique experience to each job that gives me faith that SE will eventually introduce a class whose main focus is in managing buffs and debuffs.

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I just got WHM to 50 today after playing SCH as my healer class for the past year. Have to re-learn how to heal entirely, because it is quite different from how Scholar plays.


Also having seen how Ninja has been evolving as my friends have leveled it up, gives me hope for the future of this game having more diverse and interesting roles to play in battle.

^I have hope too :)

Red Mage & Agent should be very interesting I think.

We don't want a broken game. The more you change the more it will stay the same. Call the roles whatever you like, it won't be long before people figure out the efficient mix of "tank, healer, and dps". If not you will have one OP class and everyone will be there and that will be that.

^by that logic we'd only have 1 melee DPS instead of 3.

People will still play any of DRG, MNK, or NIN.

Expansions are a good time for revision of such systems like revising Class/Job System or implementing Supports (possible revision of Party Makeup's).

Besides, we basically already have a Support in Bard.

It's supportive capabilities don't damper it's worthiness in group.

It gimps it's DPS to give party more DPS, etc.

It's an enabler.

Deeper Support Jobs could always use the DPS flag too so party makeup doesn't require change.

Let's say by default a Support does 80% dps, but through effective use of skills it can do 100% or increase a party member's DPS to 120%, bringing with it additional utility from other Jobs.

Sure, it wouldn't technically break the Trinity as this thread originally proposes but it's workable within the game's framework as most people seem to want (and how SE is likely to include more Support-Types).

Benefits? Enhance a BLM for nuke-phases, enhance a DRG for quick-burn, enhance a MNK for sustained encounters. You personally wouldn't really shine in any of these categories but would bolster others efficiently to crush enemies.

Solo, you wouldn't really be gimped albeit not the quickest farmer ever. Probably the ultimate Solo'er though with all the add'l tools like how SCH/SMN are awesome doing Alex Maps alone.

What? You can do stuff breaking the trinity system, I remember doing primals with 1 tank and 7 sch xD, u can always do stuff with diferent kind and f parties xD

Many people are waiting for true support type jobs, could work them into 8 man stuff easily but may be difficult for 4 man dungeons. In lotro the small party size was only 3 players so working in a burglar (support mostly) was really difficult and no one wanted to take a burg for 3 mans. I hope SE figures out how to incorporate red mages :3

The trinity system is fine as is. I'd just like it if healers will have more support abilities

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Emergent gameplay was the intent behind 1.0. With players being able to cross class more viable skills, but that was never fully realized.
This game is constructed on the trinity idea. It demands it of the playerbase.

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I was referring more to the path themepark MMOs have taken, not strictly 1.0 to 2.0. The trinity system tank/heals/dps is the most slimmed down design you can build a game against given that players will always look for ways to increase damage output.

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Originally Posted by Toodles

^by that logic we'd only have 1 melee DPS instead of 3.

People will still play any of DRG, MNK, or NIN.

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That's because within the DPS role, so long as each class does similar damage, people will play it. The difference is how each class operates.

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It gimps it's DPS to give party more DPS, etc.

Deeper Support Jobs could always use the DPS flag too so party makeup doesn't require change.

Let's say by default a Support does 80% dps, but through effective use of skills it can do 100% or increase a party member's DPS to 120%, bringing with it additional utility from other Jobs.

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You still haven't solve the original problem. That support class will now be required to do end game raiding. Raid leaders will basically tell those players they have do their best to maintain the 120% improvement. Devs will have to design encounters with them in mind, and have to somehow entice people to play it. You've effectively gimped everyone who doesn't have the class. The current design, spreading out the buffs and debuffs among classes, on long cooldowns or at costs is probably the most efficient way to ensure people can still have buffs, but not require everyone to have them.

^what... no.

It's simply a modality. It approaches DPS differently.

It wouldn't be a requirement any more than any other Job, especially if they implement more than one.

Some fights would favor it's utilization but that's the same as "it's better to have only 1 Melee in this fight or a mix of Physical/Magical damage"... we have that currently.

Only the most hardcore of raiders who say "no X Job, it does 1% less DPS in our comp" would make it so, but that's normal (MNK>DRG, etc.) & already exists in ARR.

They could balance DPS-Support just fine as seen with BRD.

They wouldn't have to entice people to play it either, the people who want to will just like today... people who like tanking tank, people who don't... Don't.

There's such a thing as balancing roles/Jobs to be viable but not OP/UP, it's entirely possible to do with DPS-Support hybrids.