Auto attack: A complete battle system

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03-27-2011, 12:51 AM
Linnear

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Hello, and welcome to playing actual video games where that is required from you. I hope you can get over the culture shock.

betel, are you ever going to make a point or are you just going to say I am right and your wrong all the time? You are just saying it sucks, how about letting the rest of the community in on the super special secret which is why AA is a bad idea? just for a change of pace, but I understand if you wan't want to, change can be scarry.....

Lower the amount of unentertaining useless moves by an auto attack and you leave more room for movements, positioning, and you let the mobs be harder becuase your not spending time on useless attacks. Seems pretty simple, auto attack lets the devs make the game harder and more interesting. If you woudl rather just stand there and hit a bunch of buttons at various intervals thats good for you, but dont' say you think an Auto attack will make the game easier becuase that is not necessarly the case if SE does it right.
03-27-2011, 01:28 AM
Betelgeuzah

Quote:

Betelgeuzah, you are in the minority when it comes to liking what we currently have.

From where did you pull this assumption from?

When I say I don't agree with the proposed solution that does not mean I think the current system is fine. And more importantly, just because I don't like the current system in it's present form does not mean I should just shut up and be grateful that we're getting "something", whatever that may be.

Being satisfied with mediocrity is what got them in this situation in the first place.

Quote:

You are just saying it sucks, how about letting the rest of the community in on the super special secret which is why AA is a bad idea

I have a thread where everything regarding auto-attack has been discussed more than a few times already.

Quote:

and you let the mobs be harder becuase your not spending time on useless attacks.

What the hell does this even mean?
03-27-2011, 01:41 AM
Linnear

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

I have a thread where everything regarding auto-attack has been discussed more than a few times already.
[/I]

Not that I have seen, I have read 4-5 different threads about this and NONE of them give a valid reason why AA is a bad idea, there is a lot of crying to not change, and people saying they dont' want poeple AFKing and people saying it woudl make the game too easy, but none of that is really valid and AA does not effect any of thoes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

What the hell does this even mean?

I figured it would be pretty self explanitory, there is only so many actions you can preform in a given unit of time, with that time you can use light attack to build TP to use abilites, or you can move around and watch the mob and others and arrange your movements and attacks accordingly. if you have auto attack you can focus more on what I consider the meaninfgull actions and movements. If your on a controler and you have to spend all your time running through actions, you can't chat/watch what is going on. THis means that SE needs to make the game at an adequatly easy level to accomidate for thier ennefictive battle system. Right now on a controler ther eins't room for much more involved combat. Granted there is room for more challenging stuff but with AA there is more room.

Seems pretty simpe to me.
03-27-2011, 01:50 AM
Betelgeuzah

Quote:

Not that I have seen, I have read 4-5 different threads about this and NONE of them give a valid reason why AA is a bad idea

I am not really surprised that someone biased towards implementing AA would not find any "valid" reasons for not implementing it. I can't really change that, either.

Quote:

there is only so many actions you can preform in a given unit of time

And you know what's so good about this? This game isn't even close to hitting that limit of the number of actions and even if they speed up the combat even further, it won't happen. I can list dozens of games out of my head that have you perform double as many actions as in this game, as well as making you move around and let you "talk" at the same time. Your definition of "involving" is also flawed. Special skills aren't nearly as important as basic attacks in this game, and neither is moving around in the battlefield. Neither of these 'issues' has anything to do with the stamina gauge or the lack of auto-attack, and both issues can be fixed regardless of if auto-attack exists or not. Auto-attack won't fix those issues either, it will only make it even more obvious that the current combat is flawed and broken.
03-27-2011, 01:51 AM
Malakhim

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

Betelgeuzah, you are in the minority when it comes to liking what we currently have.

I have to agree with Betel. Where are you getting this statistic from? It's fine if you say a bunch of people are for AA, but it's premature and ignorant to assume that there isn't a sizable group of people that appreciate an active battle system based on a poll that is closed off to people who bought the game, have an active game account, and decided to answer the poll in the first place, and that isn't counting the people who DID post on the poll that they appreciated it.

For example, I've had a group of friends who are veterans of FFXI and several other entries in the series try FFXIV for an hour or so on different occasions, and most of them agree(4 out of 5) that they actually liked the active selection and armory system. These guys don't own a copy of the game or have an active FFXIV account. Where's their say?

Don't assume general unanimity without evidence thereof. It pretty much ruins arguments and perceptions of said arguers even if there's a HINT of truth to the person's argument.
03-27-2011, 01:54 AM
Linnear

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

I am not really surprised that someone biased towards implementing AA would not find any "valid" reasons for not implementing it. I can't really change that, either.

And you know what's so good about this? This game isn't even close to hitting that limit of the number of actions and even if they speed up the combat even further, it won't happen. I can list dozens of games out of my head that have you perform double as many actions as in this game, as well as making you move around and let you "talk" at the same time. Your definition of "involving" is also flawed. Special skills aren't nearly as important as basic attacks in this game, and neither is moving around in the battlefield. Neither of these 'issues' has anything to do with the stamina gauge or the lack of auto-attack, and both issues can be fixed regardless of if auto-attack exists or not.

0 games that play on controler and requires communication require as much button mashing, you keep missing this important aspect. if your only looking for your experience on a PC your right, but for controllers it doesnt' work. The fact of the matter is this game is going to be released for PS3 and as it is now, it will never fly. It isn't challenging enough to just have a PC clientel either for the point you just mentioned. FFs strengh is the fact that it is multi platform, for better or worse this was the decission SE took, so we need a combat system that works in that enviornemnt.

The fact that special skills and moving around is not important is part of the problem, AA makes implementing both of these on a controller much easier as you don't waste action time on actions that can be replaced with an AA. I am not saying that AA is required for these to come into effect but it does make it easier for a CONTROLER. ALso I am asuming you have a point to make about the stamina bar, but as I did not mention it I assume you have somethign to say about it.
03-27-2011, 01:55 AM
Andrien

Yes they should add it. It'll be a great addition.
03-27-2011, 01:59 AM
Betelgeuzah

Quote:

0 games that play on controler and requires communication require as much button mashing, you keep missing this important aspect.

That's why the combat is not even close to the button mashing level of those games. Which is what you keep missing. You think this game is like the pinnacle of button mashing for the consoles, when it's not even close. The actual gameplay becomes more about reflexes and you don't have to think about what you're doing the more you keep playing and the better you get. This shouldn't be an issue in an MMORPG where everyone is supposed to play for months. Everyone can and will learn this combat system and will have no problem communicating. Even if they sped it up further.

There is simply no need to underestimate your normal console player and that is more of an insult towards that group of players than anything. "You're a console player and can't keep up, therefore we dumbed this game down for you. Enjoy."
03-27-2011, 02:07 AM
Linnear

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malakhim

I have to agree with Betel. Where are you getting this statistic from? It's fine if you say a bunch of people are for AA, but it's premature and ignorant to assume that there isn't a sizable group of people that appreciate an active battle system based on a poll that is closed off to people who bought the game, have an active game account, and decided to answer the poll in the first place, and that isn't counting the people who DID post on the poll that they appreciated it.

For example, I've had a group of friends who are veterans of FFXI and several other entries in the series try FFXIV for an hour or so on different occasions, and most of them agree(4 out of 5) that they actually liked the active selection and armory system. These guys don't own a copy of the game or have an active FFXIV account. Where's their say?

Don't assume general unanimity without evidence thereof. It pretty much ruins arguments and perceptions of said arguers even if there's a HINT of truth to the person's argument.

I am going to assume that the dozons of threads on the topic might be a clue that it is an issue, Yoshi saying they will look at it might also be a hint, the low server pop might be a hint. Granted that they are all speculative, but there is noting sugesting that the system is good or couldn't be improved by an AA either. Unless you know something we don't, I woudl aruge that there is more information sugesting it is bad than good. If you know something we don't please share. If you can show me otherwise I would gladly listen.
03-27-2011, 02:15 AM
Malakhim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linnear

I am going to assume that the dozons of threads on the topic might be a clue that it is an issue, Yoshi saying they will look at it might also be a hint, the low server pop might be a hint. Granted that they are all speculative, but there is noting sugesting that the system is good or couldn't be improved by an AA either. Unless you know something we don't, I woudl aruge that there is more information sugesting it is bad than good. If you know something we don't please share. If you can show me otherwise I would gladly listen.

I'm not saying I have any quantitative evidence, and I'm also not saying an auto-attack couldn't work.

I'm just pointing out that automatically assuming that everyone is for something and nobody is for the alternative is a dangerous side effect of group think, and that given the very closed nature of the polls and the forums, it's natural that there's going to be a large group of people(including potential customers) that are excluded. It also makes the person making the assumption look dumb.

I also say this as a person guilty of it on a few other forum topics on other FFXIV forums.

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