Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

We simply can't be throwing around numbers without specifying a length, people. Blood for Blood is that important.

My gear set is 1str off the non-crafted bis weight, and I've only ever seen 630@29% Crit, which is extremely high.
So I really can't see 630+@20%.
That being said, I have no idea how much it varies between softwares.

Edit: I was following Tetsuya's base of 3 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

630-640 shouldn't be too far away with a finished gearset imo

with xpf, im doing 605-615 with zodiac (35det/24crit/24sksp) and i110 choker, no mercy stroke. getting dread spear and dread choker would push that to 630+ at least i think

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I think so too. All I miss is choker for crafted bis.

Wait hold on, did RICKY GET A SPEAR?

5th book so far. 5 books in a row so far. This is ridiculous, only DPS drop we've gotten so far that we can use is BLM staff. And it's literally been repeating the SAME drops. ;_;
I'm so salty. SO SALTY.

no spear `-`

got gloves on alt but it went to buyer

doing it again on friday will update boys

30% chance to get duplicate weapon for alt jobs
got duplicate weapon

praying for good and easy zodiac upgrade next week

Every time I guess the next relic step is going to be (drumroll) "another long and horrible grind that'll take me till the week before the next step to finish", and almost every time, called it.

But since we've gotten DET/CRIT two Coil sagas in a row, it does feel a little silly at times.

Try doing it without Party Buff, Food, Potions, and Mercy Stroke, then go until you run out of TP (should be around the four and a bit minute mark). Should be some others who'll be willing to dummy and see what they get compared to you :p

Many reasons why you're not pushing a higher DPS really. Click/ability delay, GDC clipping, missed auto-attacks, latency, RNG...

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

Every time I guess the next relic step is going to be (drumroll) "another long and horrible grind that'll take me till the week before the next step to finish", and almost every time, called it.

But since we've gotten DET/CRIT two Coil sagas in a row, it does feel a little silly at times.

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Meh, IMO the zodiac weapons are a waste of time. The time commitment required to get them is just not realistic for players who can only play 15-20 hours/week (most of that time is spent with my static). Content is never tough enough to truly require BiS gear anyways, so even if the DW spear was Acc/Crit or SS/Det, it would still be more than good enough for any content the game has to offer (including the hard mode FCoB when it comes out)

Just my opinion of course, some people have enough time to be able to spend it doing that stuff. I am just not one of them.

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

We simply can't be throwing around numbers without specifying a length, people. Blood for Blood is that important.

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This. Everytime I see ppl throwing parse numbers, I ask myself:

"How much time did this person parsed? Wich was the crit %? Is this an avarage number, or the highest after 2k atemps? Wich is this persons ping?" and the questions goes on and on.

And that's why I don't really care for DPS numbers in this thread. Except when someone bring a clear Screen Shot, where we can analyse the results.

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Originally Posted by Tetsuya

Well since I've completed the non-crafted BiS, what could I possibly be doing wrong if I don't reach 630-640 DPS on a Dummy?
Rotation should be oke, used 1 X-Pot, Black Truffle Risotto Food, 1 Party Member, No Mercy Stroke and No Poisoning Pots.
Can't check my DPS clearly by myself either, because of disabling the reading of network data, which causes a delay in results.
(Trying to avoid the specific wording)

I'll try a test again later today when I'm home, including Poisoning Pots, but not really confident with it that it'll increase it by that much.

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Didn't realize how much of an impact latency had on my dps until I upgraded my internet. My DL and UL speeds basically multiplied by 6 and latency went from 140ms to around 70ms (numbers reported by WTFast). My dps skyrocketed, and I noticed I could properly fit IR and BFB in one GCD or throw in a jump in between GCD, and not delay my next ability. Check your connection. It might be that

WTFast has definitely given me a huge DPS boost (idk If I've said it already). If you've got shit stain latency, definitely use WTFast. It's got an unlimited Free Trial as of yesterday. No reason for people NOT to use it now.

I just took up the WTFast offer, and saw my ping drop from "260ms to 160ms".
Eye-balling it from the estimations back in 488, there's roughly a 3% increase.
Previously my average was around 620, i'm not seeing any numbers less than 630.

Max 654.64 @26.9%crit (xpot, party, food, no_mercy, 3:18s)
Probably at least 660 at 29% or something.

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Originally Posted by Tex_Mex

Meh, IMO the zodiac weapons are a waste of time.

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Coil is a waste of time, too. Without my Novus I would've been stuck progressing T10-12 with the Liberator.

Anything in life is a waste of time, all that matters is how much you enjoy said waste of time, thus is life.

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

Coil is a waste of time, too. Without my Novus I would've been stuck progressing T10-12 with the Liberator.

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hehe funny you should say that. I actually completed T10 and T11 with the liberator weapon when my static was learning those fights. (mainly because Shiva EX RNG was not friendly to me, 50+ clears, no spear :|) Since then, I got a tomestone drop from T11 so i have the 130 ironworks spear now.

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Originally Posted by Tetsuya

Nevermind, I'll just leave this here, not sure what else I could do to improve what I'm already doing, rotationwise.

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That's what I was talking about.
/clap.

Put your potion before your DoTs. Because you're on legacy controls, you should try not to rely on auto-facing to maintain facing for auto-attacks (use as little movement as possible, lock-on if you can handle it, manually face the target when you do move, etc.). Not much more to say without watching very closely.

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Originally Posted by Tex_Mex

hehe funny you should say that. I actually completed T10 and T11 with the liberator weapon when my static was learning those fights. (mainly because Shiva EX RNG was not friendly to me, 50+ clears, no spear :|) Since then, I got a tomestone drop from T11 so i have the 130 ironworks spear now.

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Well, this was in i110 the first couple weeks of 2.4. No poetics gear, no DRG buff, Shiva weapons didn't go to i115, and T9 farms must've gotten me about 1/4 of my Nexus lights.

Wasn't just the lack of WD that made this suck, it was also like 60 HP lol

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Originally Posted by Tetsuya

Any adjustments or advice to do anything better?

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Are you not target locked?

I saw a few mistakes:

1. Enable target-lock. You missed A LOT of auto-attacks when you were turning around/getting positionals. Trust me.
2. You're holding Life Surges with 341 Skillspeed. Get out of that habit. Rotate LS usage. I don't see any excuse as to why you're not doing it.
3. Why did you use your pot after you applied Chaos Thrust and Phlebotomize and already used Leg Sweep and a Power Surged jump?


Also, is there any way you can upload the logfile for me? I'd like to analyse it, because there's absolutely no way you're only parsing 18DPS higher than myself after 4 minutes of work. I think your parser is busted.

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Originally Posted by Tetsuya

Well, the thing is when I tested it, it didn't made a difference in the DPS I made at the end, plus even when I'm not facing it, I often notice that my character still simply hits with auto-attack while having its back turned to the target.
That's my reasoning behind saying that it makes no big difference.

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That's right, I play legacy too without target lock, the thing is, you just move with Q and E instead of A and D, that way, when you move from flank to rear, you just don't face away the target, and in the end, you gain great mobility with no dps loss.

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Originally Posted by Tetsuya

2. It's a poor excuse, but I mainly hold it off for the Full Thrust, where else could I use it once it's up from Cooldown?

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Chaos Thrust :D I pointed out back in 2.45 that you can use Life Surge with Full Thrust, Chaos Thrust, Full thrust, Chaos Thrust etc, now that it's a 50s timer. It's a 0.5 PPS increase, which is like an additional 3-5 dps or something.

I wrote a love letter to the Dreadwyrm Spear

Oh dear spear please come to me/
Away from Bahamut let me set you free//
Pierce things together while having a blast/
Record DPS while we're kicking some ass//
I don't want the relic, I want you, you see/
At the end of 13, a spiteful RNG//
Why do I seem to have an unlucky past/
Spear I need you please, but for me, alas//

STUPID LOOT SYSTEM JESUS CHRIST THANKS GAME.

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Originally Posted by Tetsuya

Alright, will do that from now on then, gotta get used to it first though, but yea you might've mentioned it, though I'm not always following the thread so I couldn't know and the guy who made the thread doesn't update the main page.

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The guy won't come back, let it go. Dervy is our main theorycrafter now, and already promissed us to put a new thread as soon as 3.0 hits and we gether enought data.

That's the updates from 2015 :P

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Originally Posted by EllPii

I just took up the WTFast offer, and saw my ping drop from "260ms to 160ms".
Eye-balling it from the estimations back in 488, there's roughly a 3% increase.
Previously my average was around 620, i'm not seeing any numbers less than 630.

Max 654.64 @26.9%crit (xpot, party, food, no_mercy, 3:18s)
Probably at least 660 at 29% or something.

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My ping went down to 9 ms LEL, that's super broke, I have 0 mudra lag, like, NOTHING, and i can fit 3 ogcd between 2 gcd if i feel like it. GG

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Originally Posted by Spayd

My ping went down to 9 ms LEL, that's super broke, I have 0 mudra lag, like, NOTHING, and i can fit 3 ogcd between 2 gcd if i feel like it. GG

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Do you secretly live inside the Montreal Datacenters? I call hax.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Do you secretly live inside the Montreal Datacenters? I call hax.

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I do live in Montreal ahahah. I find it absurdely op, I love it! You guys should move to Montreal if you want this!

Oh dear spear please come to me/
Away from Bahamut let me set you free//
Pierce things together while having a blast/
Record DPS while we're kicking some ass//
I don't want the relic, I want you, you see/
At the end of 13, a spiteful RNG//
Why do I seem to have an unlucky past/
Spear I need you please, but for me, alas//

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Originally Posted by Tetsuya

Anyway to get back to my original question. Lock-on or not to Lock-on? Big difference or No difference? I'd like to know different perspectives, because I still do auto-attacks even while facing my back to the target,
that's what I noticed at least.

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You can test this by facing away, press 'A' to target the dummy, and press it again to enable auto-attacks. If you keep facing away, after a few seconds it will say "target out of range" instead of doing an auto-attack.

A lot of people say players on Legacy controls "miss" or "lose" autoattacks when they're not facing the right way at the right time, but this wording is misleading, and I'm never quite sure if people who say this understand a certain thing about AAs. The accurate term is "delay": any actual loss comes from accumulated delays. AAs are on their own cooldown timer, and the game will hold it for you until you face correctly (and you do have to maintain that for a short amount of time; it's not strictly instant). You can actually spend the time between AAs facing away, then turn the right way shortly before and still get it at the same time you'd get it if you'd faced the right way the entire time.

So, the goal for players who want to get in as many AAs as possible is to make sure potential AA delays are both infrequent and short. If you use Legacy controls, it means you have to put effort into it, but in any dummy practice session I've bothered to check on DRG, I've pretty much been able to divide the time elapsed by the weapon's "delay" stat and boom, I'm perfect *preens feathers*

So I'm beginning to suspect that my raid leaders ACT might be mis-calibrated or something because its showing me frequently breaking 610 with zodiac. Watching videos of past t11 and t12 clears, I would burst up to around 850 and then after the dust settled, I would be sitting around 600-630 until ADS/Benu phase started. I guess I just figured you guys with the dreadwyrm spear were hitting for like 640-670 at those points.

After seeing some of the numbers you guys are posting, well... Im good, but I dont think im THAT good.

it depends on dps on the clear

you'd lose dps on periods where you can't hit like after adds on t11 or during dives on t12

no drops again boys

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

it depends on dps on the clear

you'd lose dps on periods where you can't hit like after adds on t11 or during dives on t12

no drops again boys

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I am surprised at how well you handled it.

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Originally Posted by Tetsuya

So which is it, do I lose really a lot of auto-attacks by not doing lock-on target or not? Cause I'm sure I don't notice any big differences between it when I tested it.
Of course I can switch anytime and just get used to one or the other, but would like to have a clear definite answer before that from all perspectives.

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Its easy enough to test. Do a 4 min parse on a dummy, doing exactly what you do to max dps, get those positionals, pop all cds, ect. Then do another 4 min parse where you do everything like the first test except don't move at all. Afterwards, you can can check the number of auto attacks between the two parses.

Depends on your skillspeed. Personally for you, Chaos Thrust.

Use it before Chaos Thrust, obviously :P.

3 min parse is not long enough. If you want to get a better grip at your dps you should do a 4 min parse, stopping right before your 4th BfB pops.

Anyone notice any funky shenanigans with ACT when parsing? What has happened to me often is that when I end the parse manually (i.e. when I'm dummy parsing), if I close ACT and then open it again with the logfile that was just created, my DPS will have dropped because the encounter time seems to have increased slightly. I think it's related to DoT ticks (I compared the Outgoing Damage sections from before and after and found the only difference was the extra ticks), but this is damned annoying >_>

you can type "/echo end" in chat and it'll end the parse.

EDIT: http://advancedcombattracker.com/faq.php?id=3 here's a list of all of the ACT commands. Replace /act with /echo. I bet 99% of the community doesn't know about this :D

Oh snap. This is pretty great actually - thanks :p