Lack of End Game Content

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

I never played Secret World, so I can't comment on how good this system would be. Either way, at least you're down for suggesting improvements. I like that. Most of what has been going on in this thread is people arguing over what endgame is or asking if someone has done absolutely everything in this game. Completely useless. Devs will get nothing from that, if they are reading this.

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TSW is all about puzzles and mysteries, combat exists mainly just to cater to people who like to shoot zombies, etc. (or if the story involves mopping up a bad guy).

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Originally Posted by AniKai

TSW is all about puzzles and mysteries, combat exists more or less to cater to people who like to shoot zombies, etc.

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To be honest, I do feel like adding more puzzles and mysteries in this game would definitely be a boon. Especially if they can combine certain puzzles into bosses as well.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

To be honest, I do feel like adding more puzzles and mysteries in this game would definitely be a boon. Especially if they can combine certain puzzles into bosses as well.

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A simple example of a puzzle thing might lead to a boss... Solve how that door with weirdo symbols is opened. TSW approach: lets present the player a few clues, a piece of music, and a bunch egyptian hieroglyphs on sides of a pyramid. So, there you go... Google ofc is a friend when it comes to e.g. egyptian hieroglyphs... (TSW actively tells people to use google, etc, as it is - its essential tool to solve some things, e.g. things that involve multiple languages, or the said hieroglyphs, or just ISBN codes...) In a way, part of the game is in-game, part of it exists in the wilderness of internet (they have in-game browser just for that purpose, to find things).

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Originally Posted by AniKai

Mmm, there's that... But what if mixing real mystery solving á la Secret World? Stuff that's not solvable by just clicking on things...

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Sorry, as someone that did play a little of the Secret World, no thanks. FFXI was bad enough with being cryptic with its quests, Secret World kinda took that to eleven. Never a fan of a game that requires a guide or hours of research/homework to progress.

If they could do it in a way that managed to not essentially need a guide or outside resources, I might say yes. The mystery ones tend to go a bit off the deep end where if you missed some random bit of lore dialogue from an NPC somewhere, it can become unsolvable. Say the Satasha Prisoners, or some NPC that is only around during certain Fate/Quest Chains for example. Or if you haven't gotten the Tonberry lore from the Sch job quests as another example.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

Thank you. Though I'll still have to disagree that the lack of endgame is a problem. So we will just have to agree to disagree on that front.

As while I do enjoy plenty of the non endgame content in the game, there are also plenty of times I want stuff that is challenging to do at level cap.

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I think things will be released over time as the expansion progresses, like another max level zone and another deep dungeon.

At the same time, I think there's a problem when content is challenging only because it is end-game content.

Max Level zones, for example, stop being challenging when the next expansion is released, same with dungeons and raids.

I especially dislike additional end-game content that improves item level, I would prefer it be challenging content done strictly for cosmetic rewards. When the rewards are largely cosmetic, the content tends to have very long legs because the reward is theoretically always relevant. When the content is done specifically to increase item level, it tends to get dropped completely once that level is maxed out. That being said, I didn't like GW2, so some amount is good, and I think the amount in ff14 is ok.

I would totally support, for example, a deep dungeon that began at level 80, or a boss rush carnival for all jobs like Blue Mage.

Later on, they can be things that also give exp so it becomes an additional way to level at level 80 in a future expansion.

It's true when someone earlier said I was basically just arguing against WoW - yes, that's true, I dislike gear treadmills and how WoW uses gear to make it's player base engage in activity it doesn't care for.

WoW has other issues too but this post is forever long.

As long as additional end-game content doesn't impact your item level, I'm fine, and if it's challenging - awesome ;)

I'm someone who completed challenge modes in MoP and WoD where the rewards were strictly cosmetic.

Hmmmm, maybe we could have challenge mode dungeons in FF14 . . .

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Originally Posted by Forever_Learning

Hmmmm, maybe we could have challenge mode dungeons in FF14 . . .

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That would be amazing :)

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Originally Posted by Forever_Learning

I think things will be released over time as the expansion progresses, like another max level zone and another deep dungeon.

At the same time, I think there's a problem when content is challenging only because it is end-game content.

Max Level zones, for example, stop being challenging when the next expansion is released, same with dungeons and raids.

I especially dislike additional end-game content that improves item level, I would prefer it be challenging content done strictly for cosmetic rewards. When the rewards are largely cosmetic, the content tends to have very long legs because the reward is theoretically always relevant. When the content is done specifically to increase item level, it tends to get dropped completely once that level is maxed out.

I would totally support, for example, a deep dungeon that began at level 80, or a boss rush carnival for all jobs like Blue Mage.

Later on, they can be things that also give exp so it becomes an additional way to level at level 80 in a future expansion.

It's true when someone earlier said I was basically just arguing against WoW - yes, that's true, I dislike gear treadmills and how WoW uses gear to make it's player base engage in activity it doesn't care for.

As long as additional end-game content doesn't impact your item level, I'm fine, and if it's challenging - awesome ;)

I'm someone who completed challenge modes in MoP and WoD where the rewards were strictly cosmetic.

Hmmmm, maybe we could have challenge mode in FF14 . . .

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The reason I would like it to be end game content is while there is plenty of things to do through out the game, once you hit cap things dry up. But I think that comes from a design perspective/veiwpoint issue that someone else made click in a different thread.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Imagine this being a thing and you have to go from X to Y for a quest without flying as a newbie.
This would be ridiculously annoying like it is in GW2.

I am better with being strongest on earth warrior of light, the killer of gods and dragons, who fought the apocalypse himself, than a weak noodle who will die from tree attacking him.
Can you even imagine how would that look? You could fight and defeat incredibly strong entities who are able to change reality and destroy it, yet you get killed by a bunch of rabbits or mushrooms.
That would be double ridiculous.

NO, lets write it down again.
You are playing a demi-god hercules-like warrior of light, the storngest "humanoid" in the universe who fought and defeated the world destroyer, Gods, dragons and entities who are able to change the physics and manipulate space and do anything they want, aaand you get killed by a squirell or turtle.
That would be the lamest thing i have ever seen.

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The whole not seeing eye to eye, I think is more from the difference of enjoying playing Superman beating up mostly minor villains in the absence of Kryptonite vs enjoying playing Batman beating up the same foes. Without Kryptonite, Superman gets no challenge from most foes he faces. In XIV's case, in ARR the Warrior of Light was more on the Batman side of the Scale, now it seems more like its on the Superman side of the scale. Without the Warrior of Lights version of Kryptonite, there is very little challenge most of the time.

I don't think gear or progression has much of anything to do with it at all. Just consider how entertaining or enjoyable most superhero fiction is, and where they and their typical opponents fit on the power scale. The reason there is a distinct feel of lack of end game content to some is more likely due to what our typical opponents are at end game outside of the MSQ. Run of the mill wildlife and the like, random dungeon mobs, etc. To some, our character is likened to a Demi-god or Primal. Pray tell what else in the world is supposed to provide a challenge to one Warrior of Light, let alone a group of them? There isn't much that fills the gap that the MSQ antagonist leaves once the MSQ is wrapped up. Where as in XI, your character was just viewed as an adventurer that had managed to perform some exceptional deeds, most things in the world were still a threat to any individual adventurer. Might be why there wasn't as much of a feeling of a lack of endgame in XI despite it actually probably having even less.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

Sorry, as someone that did play a little of the Secret World, no thanks. FFXI was bad enough with being cryptic with its quests, Secret World kinda took that to eleven. Never a fan of a game that requires a guide or hours of research/homework to progress.

If they could do it in a way that managed to not essentially need a guide or outside resources, I might say yes. The mystery ones tend to go a bit off the deep end where if you missed some random bit of lore dialogue from an NPC somewhere, it can become unsolvable. Say the Satasha Prisoners, or some NPC that is only around during certain Fate/Quest Chains for example. Or if you haven't gotten the Tonberry lore from the Sch job quests as another example.

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The main problem would actually be:

- Once solved, all the novelty from the puzzles would be gone unless they make solution random, which is annoying

- You'd switch from "read/watch a guide on the dungeon" (which I'm fine with btw. not an attack on people getting prepared and not wasting others' time) to "read/watch a video about the puzzle' solution"

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

It doesn't matter at this point whether the OP specified what he wanted to your liking in the original post. Point is, he and others have long since done so now. So why are people pretending they still don't know what he is asking for and playing ignorant just to deny the simple truth in front of them?

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Who's doing that? I was responding to the claim that instanced content is wasted. Someone else wants to jump in to disagree over me saying these contents are used in endgame therefore they indirectly become endgame content is not me denying anything as far as what the original post is asking.

As far as the original post is concerned, I support their request, though I doubt the current FFXIV design would allow much to be done in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

So status report. Before the first week was over, I cleared turns 1-3 with pug groups. That is now on farm status. I expect to beat e4s before this week is over. Are you really telling me this is fine? That the one piece of content I will get in 6 months, I will have already beaten all of it after 2 weeks, when it used to take top groups 3 weeks to beat the entirety of savage? Now me, with my pug groups, can beat it in 2 weeks. The only piece of content that raiders enjoy is so easily beatable. If you really think this is okay, you're delusional.

P.S. I haven't been no lifeing it. I've been going to my full time job...

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So you got lucky with pugs and you claim that's going to happen for many people? Haha my guy there are people in pf that can't grasp simple mechanics and can't even hold their own in a fight. But obviously you are so great and better than everyone else so it is not fine for you to clear that fast. Look, I cleared the ENTIRETY of sigmascape in pugs but were they good pugs? They were better than my static at the time... sure but they were still wiping the group tons. I semi quit raiding next tier because I was bored and busy with real life. I didn't care one bit for Alphascape savage but I did do O9S and people were wiping that insanely easy fight. You have gotten 3 turns down in a week which is very possible if you spend lots of time trying to learn and that is CLEARLY what you have done. Sure, go beat E4S and then claim there is no challenging endgame content when you haven't killed both ultimates yet. AGAIN, IT IS NOT EASILY BEATABLE. You seriously just got lucky. I can't find a party worth a damn to even clear the first turn this tier yet but I expect that cause it is a pick up group by definition and I have been in 2 hours at most.

PS: You dont speak for the entirety of players here just cause you got lucky groups. More endgame content would be nice but for people that want challenging content there is ultimate. And I mean actual Ultimate clears... not using voice call outs for the mechanics via a bot like players have done to trivialize it. Also, I can't stress this enough. If you are bored with the monotonous cycle where gear is useless in 3 months then why are you hurting yourself and then unsubbing before doing it over again. You clearly dont enjoy it so why even play at all at that point?