RP shout ads are obstructive to chat and gameplay

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1313

novice network says that the people spam and get reported a lot and the gms dont do anything about the spam at all because the same ppl who get reported continue spamming the same spam every day so they all agree that gms are a part of it so they wont do anything cuz they value erp and spam over enjoyable game experience for all players so this must be a big issue if ppl feel so strongly about it and make a big stink so why dont they do the right thing and fix it

---

This is a conspiracy theory made by people who can't fathom that the people they're reporting might not be violating any ToS rules.

Spam is an iffy topic because people view the venue ads spammy as a whole, while the individuals doing the ad postings might not be actually spamming. The way it works is venue shout people go around all the DCs and post an ad in shout chat in each servers main cities. When more than one person is doing this at the same time, it creates a spam effect while the individuals are only posting one message themselves.

Therefore, it doesn't technically constitute spamming on an individual level but as a whole, so it's hard to ban anyone for it when they aren't necessarily spamming themselves. There are just a lot of venue ads and they bleed together and it annoys people to the point that they think the GMs are involved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LianaThorne

This is a conspiracy theory made by people who can't fathom that the people they're reporting might not be violating any ToS rules.

Spam is an iffy topic because people view the venue ads spammy as a whole, while the individuals doing the ad postings might not be actually spamming. The way it works is venue shout people go around all the DCs and post an ad in shout chat in each servers main cities. When more than one person is doing this at the same time, it creates a spam effect while the individuals are only posting one message themselves.

Therefore, it doesn't technically constitute spamming on an individual level but as a whole, so it's hard to ban anyone for it when they aren't necessarily spamming themselves. There are just a lot of venue ads and they bleed together and it annoys people to the point that they think the GMs are involved.

---

if its bugging this many people they should do something about it dont ya think cuz like everyone on the aether server i play on is super annoyed by it and ppl always complain and argue about it and report about it and make threads about it even last night people had this big argument over erp dens in novice network and why it should be ok to spam erp messages in chat and its all crazy like just give them an erp channel lol

Spam is a difficult topic to trace, most especially in RP context. If they are going across several city states and zones writing the same message then IMO this wouldn't constitute as spam. Nor would it constitute as spam if one had to use multiple shout messages to get the point across.

You reporting them and them not getting banned does not always mean no action was taken on that account. One could probably spend 10 minutes in Limsa spamming the same message and the likelihood is that, at worse they would get a warning from the GM, long long before they are banned or even temporarily suspended.

The reality is just that the devs have a different definition of what constitutes spam, as to what you do, otherwise you would find that a lot, lot more content than just RP shout adds constitute as spam. This would also encompass hunt announcements on /shout chat if one actually really wanted to go there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1313

if its bugging this many people they should do something about it dont ya think cuz like everyone on the aether server i play on is super annoyed by it and ppl always complain and argue about it and report about it and make threads about it even last night people had this big argument over erp dens in novice network and why it should be ok to spam erp messages in chat and its all crazy like just give them an erp channel lol

---

Were getting a chat filter in 7.0 so soon people can just filter out common ad terms.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Were getting a chat filter in 7.0 so soon people can just filter out common ad terms.

---

Then they just use different terms, p u t s p a c e s i n t h e t e x t or add d1ff3r3nt charac+er$ to the wording of the adverts, like we see RMT and brothel adverts do in other games. The term filter is a real non-solution unless they are going to ban ppl using different strategies to get around it. This is basically just SE doing nothing but making it look like they are so they don't actually have to put real effort into combating such a large problem. They aren't losing money over it, they are likely making money from it, so why put in actual effort to fight it when you can just do something much cheaper and simpler and make it look like you are? Now if they start handing out bans for ppl going around the term filter, that is when I know they are actually trying.

why do they spam chat when they can just make a party finder thing that can be seen by all players across all servers on a data center and still have a packed house i dont get it why piss people off for no reasons to achieve nothing but getting yourself reported or hated on when the solution is simply use the party listing as mentioned before in here why does a whole community come together and make this game look so cringe and unmonitored to all the new players like all the other newbs in novice network with me are all creeped out by this spammy stuff like guys just stop

I just blacklist them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

Then they just use different terms, p u t s p a c e s i n t h e t e x t or add d1ff3r3nt charac+er$ to the wording of the adverts, like we see RMT and brothel adverts do in other games. The term filter is a real non-solution unless they are going to ban ppl using different strategies to get around it. This is basically just SE doing nothing but making it look like they are so they don't actually have to put real effort into combating such a large problem. They aren't losing money over it, they are likely making money from it, so why put in actual effort to fight it when you can just do something much cheaper and simpler and make it look like you are? Now if they start handing out bans for ppl going around the term filter, that is when I know they are actually trying.

---

It's there for the people who are bothered by it and I assume they'll keep up with trends to keep their chat clean if it matters enough.

Well said! I completely agree with this whole premise of creating a separate channel for player-announced events. An "Advertise" section perhaps it could be called.

I doubt that the word filter will resolve the venue spam issue, but I'm curious to see how exactly it works.
From what I understand, the filtered words will just be replaced by ███, which doesn't really solve the problem at all...
I feel like it would be better to quarantine venue/RP to a separate PF section.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mouthbone

I doubt that the word filter will resolve the venue spam issue, but I'm curious to see how exactly it works.
From what I understand, the filtered words will just be replaced by ███, which doesn't really solve the problem at all...
I feel like it would be better to quarantine venue/RP to a separate PF section.

---

That's what the other tab is used for. rp/venue/social/misc/feet pics etc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1313

That's what the other tab is used for. rp/venue/social/misc/feet pics etc

---

That's what it is right now, but I don't think it's a good use for the Other tab.
I think that Other should be used for anything that does not fit any existing category (static recruitment, personal ads, social posts) and not for predominantly venue ads.
Venue/RP are pretty well-defined categories that could use a dedicated tab to filter them, and they would get more use out of having a dedicated tab than some currently existing tabs (Guildhests, Field Operations, Gold Saucer)

Their days are numbered. Though honestly, since SE announced what they were doing the amount of ad spam, at least, as I've seen has shrunk dramatically. But I'm gonna put every permutation of the word venue I see on it. They abused a system, and their debts must be paid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mouthbone

That's what it is right now, but I don't think it's a good use for the Other tab.
I think that Other should be used for anything that does not fit any existing category (static recruitment, personal ads, social posts) and not for predominantly venue ads.
Venue/RP are pretty well-defined categories that could use a dedicated tab to filter them, and they would get more use out of having a dedicated tab than some currently existing tabs (Guildhests, Field Operations, Gold Saucer)

---

Yeah I can agree that it would probably be better to give RP/venues their own tab I guess. Would make it easier to sift through for those interested in seeing those places. I really think the op suggestion nailed it perfectly and covered all angles, and adding the extra tabs to party finder would just be icing on the cake really.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardeth

Their days are numbered. Though honestly, since SE announced what they were doing the amount of ad spam, at least, as I've seen has shrunk dramatically. But I'm gonna put every permutation of the word venue I see on it. They abused a system, and their debts must be paid.

---

I trust that strict bans will be enforced for those attempting to bypass this term filter. I would be disappointed otherwise.

My take: creating an advertising section will automatically make it lower value than the general shout chat, which will push people to avoid it and push the advertisers back to shout chat. It's a variation of the wider roads don't fix congestion problem.

I would also note that people advertising their preferred gameplay activity (venues) isn't any more or less righteous than people shouting out activity invites for hunt trains, party finder, trade offers, or giveaways. They're all ads for specific activities. However, Terms of Service apply.

There's a grey area when it comes to it comes to what certain venues are doing, and I understand that it feels like sex work because there's certainly a lot of parallels. It feels like people are getting paid (in gil) to ERP or sexily entertain folks. So, even if it's imaginary money, it's still something of value to someone. I also know what it feels like isn't necessarily what it is to everyone. And that nuance is likely the source of a lot of disagreement.

In online games it's a hobby of mine to report people inviting me to their 18+ RP guilds for sexual harassment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LianaThorne

When more than one person is doing this at the same time, it creates a spam effect while the individuals are only posting one message themselves.

---

"No snowflake in an avalanche feels responsible" - Stanislaw Jerzy Lec

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mouthbone

I doubt that the word filter will resolve the venue spam issue, but I'm curious to see how exactly it works.
From what I understand, the filtered words will just be replaced by ███, which doesn't really solve the problem at all...

---

The term filter announcement has an example showing that when AAAA is filtered, it will not show any message that contains it, whenever it's "AAAA" or "AAAAAAAHHHH" or "WHAAAAT!?". I'm just hoping it uses regex or similar functionality so I can put it in an easily usable pastebin and pass it around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1313

I trust that strict bans will be enforced for those attempting to bypass this term filter. I would be disappointed otherwise.

---

Considering FF14 has a reputation for not tolerating carcinogenic behavior it's likely this will come under existing rules regarding toxicity and general douchebaggery.

I agree. I really love RP, it adds flavor to the game, but the adds... why are all the events now lewd stuff? Like all of them, courtesans etc. I miss a good themed party or event, that is fun and everyone can join. Just my personal view.

There are two easy solutions to this...

1.) Turn off shout chat. It's not like anything of value would be lost since 95% off what goes there in the big cities isn't just ads for venues, ads for RMT, or general crap-posting. I've played the game since like 4.1 and I can count on one hand the number of times that I've seen anything worthwhile in shout chat.

2.) Don't go into the "Other" section of party finder.

Like, don't get me wrong. As a role-player, I hate a lot of these venue ads since I hate most club venues with the weird mix of IC/OOC... But if I feel that it's the internet.

I agree, it's the internet, but it would be nice with a solution where we do not have to mute /shout. I, for example, love to do hunts, the hunts are called in /shout. I often lend people a hand with taxi or advice, from /shout when out and about in the world. It would limit most players a lot to turn it off. I support that RP advertisement get their own channel.

If you wanted to automate spam throttling, you can throttle characters sent to shout per hour. That would also induce shorter messages as they would hit the cap more quickly with walls of text. That said, venues are a valid activity and any limits on their behavior would also have to apply to other advertisements for in-game activities like hunt trains, giveaways, etc.

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE OTHER THINGS YOU JUST LISTED DONT SPAM THE DAMN CHAT 24/7 SO SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DreadCrow

1.) Turn off shout chat. It's not like anything of value would be lost since 95% off what goes there in the big cities isn't just ads for venues, ads for RMT, or general crap-posting. I've played the game since like 4.1 and I can count on one hand the number of times that I've seen anything worthwhile in shout chat.

---

I don't know how you play this game, but shout chat is not useless. Like Limiloo said, shout is used for hunts, asking for help (like a raise in Eureka/Bozja), as well as people who don't seem to understand that just because the default colour is orange it's not actually the same as alliance chat.

Also, usefulness aside, how is completely blocking out one specific chat channel that's programmed into the game a solution to people who spam it? Why should everyone else pay the price of someone who's being irritating?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doozer

I don't know how you play this game, but shout chat is not useless. Like Limiloo said, shout is used for hunts, asking for help (like a raise in Eureka/Bozja), as well as people who don't seem to understand that just because the default colour is orange it's not actually the same as alliance chat.

Also, usefulness aside, how is completely blocking out one specific chat channel that's programmed into the game a solution to people who spam it? Why should everyone else pay the price of someone who's being irritating?

---

On my server "LFG", and asking for help is mostly used in the open world, not the cities. In the cities, it's mostly just ads.
And if they were a thing in cities at one point, they aren't anymore, and I doubt it will ever come back.

But that will be a non-issue come Dawntrail.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Limiloo

I agree. I really love RP, it adds flavor to the game, but the adds... why are all the events now lewd stuff? Like all of them, courtesans etc. I miss a good themed party or event, that is fun and everyone can join. Just my personal view.

---

Simplest answer: They lead to gil/RL cash for those involved (owners, brothel workers and DJs)

RP doesn't sell. The pandemic showed that people will pay for clubs and ERP. Hell, there are some workers that sell themselves (voice/videos) over Discord for real money now because of how common this lifestyle is becoming in the game.

For example, I occasionally help out sprouts with getting their feet on the ground, sometimes I'll chuck em a bit of gil to help make things a bit easier in the beginning. Recently-ish, I had two come back to me thanking me for my help and both informed me that they were now working in the NSFW side of the game because they found it fun and profitable (one as an escort and the other a dancer). Apparently they went out to experience RP in the game and discovered what it actually is and wanted a slice of the pie. It honestly made me reconsider providing financial assistance to new players as the money I was giving was going towards buying glams for the sake of working at these places rather than helping them gear their characters and progress in the actual game.

Ultimately there's no reason for owners to go back to the old ways now because profiting off simps is more important than actually providing RP experiences to the masses.

Since the issue isn't that an individual is spamming chat, but collectively one type of advertisement is overwhelming it, would people feel the same way, e.g., if venue ads were being hidden by hunt ads, or hunt ads were being hidden by giveaways. Or hunts were being hidden by people just talking? It's a shared resource, so what metric could be applied universally to everyone that was content-neutral?

Venues do not need to advertise outside of party finder to get people through their doors. Spamming shout chat is just nuisance behavior.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doozer

I don't know how you play this game, but shout chat is not useless. Like Limiloo said, shout is used for hunts, asking for help (like a raise in Eureka/Bozja), as well as people who don't seem to understand that just because the default colour is orange it's not actually the same as alliance chat.

Also, usefulness aside, how is completely blocking out one specific chat channel that's programmed into the game a solution to people who spam it? Why should everyone else pay the price of someone who's being irritating?

---

Then make a new tab that has shout so when you're out of the city, dealing with hunt-related stuff? Or like... Just tune it out? Like, that's also an option. 9 times out of 10, when I see a shout in the city, I just tune it out. But if you're legitimately bothered, there are options. But like being that bothered by their existence is a silly thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DreadCrow

Then make a new tab that has shout so when you're out of the city, dealing with hunt-related stuff? Or like... Just tune it out? Like, that's also an option. 9 times out of 10, when I see a shout in the city, I just tune it out. But if you're legitimately bothered, there are options. But like being that bothered by their existence is a silly thing.

---

Feeling irritated by the obnoxious and ignorant behaviors of other players who disrupt without any regard for others is completely justified. It's unreasonable to expect someone to constantly switch chat tabs to avoid chat flooding or to take other cumbersome measures. As repeatedly stated in this thread, there's no justification for shout advertisements for venues. Dismissing someone's legitimate feelings as silly is not appropriate and could even be considered rude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DreadCrow

Then make a new tab that has shout so when you're out of the city, dealing with hunt-related stuff? Or like... Just tune it out? Like, that's also an option. 9 times out of 10, when I see a shout in the city, I just tune it out. But if you're legitimately bothered, there are options. But like being that bothered by their existence is a silly thing.

---

Again, you're saying the solution is the responsibility of the people being subjected to it. I'd also really rather you didn't exaggerate and try to counter points I didn't make. I didn't say "I'm so bothered by its existence". I said that shout chat has its uses and having to tune it out completely in certain areas should not be the solution. I would like full access to all chat channels, and not have to completely remove one because other people can't be considerate. I'm also not sure if you're aware, but it seems most people do not share your feelings on this matter.

So I'll ask again, Why should everyone else pay the price of someone who's being irritating?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sjol

I would also note that people advertising their preferred gameplay activity (venues) isn't any more or less righteous than people shouting out activity invites for hunt trains, party finder, trade offers, or giveaways. They're all ads for specific activities. However, Terms of Service apply.

---

"Hunt train starting in X" maybe toss in a cheeky "all aboard" every now and again, or asking for "X more Y role for Z dungeon/raid" a small handful of times a day are vastly less intrusive than the 3-4 paragraphs going on about the thinly veiled cybersex and gambling events in discord that can be enjoyed to the music of MC Chuckle Bucks every 20 seconds all day every day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EusisLandale

"Hunt train starting in X" maybe toss in a cheeky "all aboard" every now and again, or asking for "X more Y role for Z dungeon/raid" a small handful of times a day are vastly less intrusive than the 3-4 paragraphs going on about the thinly veiled cybersex and gambling events in discord that can be enjoyed to the music of MC Chuckle Bucks every 20 seconds all day every day.

---

If only people stopped paying gil/real money for virtual sex, maybe they'd stop feeling a need to plaster their ads everywhere. This is a self made problem with the degenerate part of this community lol. Brothels and other sex-based venues wouldn't exist if people weren't flooding them every night to jerk off to some random dude cosplaying as a cat girl or bunny.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EusisLandale

"Hunt train starting in X" maybe toss in a cheeky "all aboard" every now and again, or asking for "X more Y role for Z dungeon/raid" a small handful of times a day are vastly less intrusive than the 3-4 paragraphs going on about the thinly veiled cybersex and gambling events in discord that can be enjoyed to the music of MC Chuckle Bucks every 20 seconds all day every day.

---

If you look at my other posts, my intent was to find a content-neutral way of limiting the spam.

"It's a shared resource, so what metric could be applied universally to everyone that was content-neutral?" -- me, earlier

I'm not saying people aren't affected by it, but in my experience if you want something like this to be properly managed you need a content-neutral rule that can be applied automatically. Barring that you're limited to expensive human resources.

A content-neutral measure for indicating something as spam could be effective. I mentioned a cap on shouts per hour or shouted characters (i.e. letters) per hours as a way to curb behavior.

Now if the issue is the content of the messages and not just their length or frequency, then that's an argument with SE about their ToS and ToS enforcement which might be better done off forums, realistically. I've seen both arguments against the content and the size/frequency of messages, though it sounds like you're against both.

Personally, where I live, we have advertisements for 18+ content, services, and products that are in the public sphere. They're concealed enough so that you can't accidentally get to the actual content or product, but the advertisement for it is there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

People enjoying a video game in a way you dont like

oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! The drama !!!!

---

Asking 14-year-old girls to be in-game hookers basically? Are you okay my dude, or are you self-reporting????

blacklist changes are great, no more freaking weirdos posting clubs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarkovitch

blacklist changes are great, no more freaking weirdos posting clubs.

---

That's what one might think, HOWEVER.... It's still not enough. During the duration of an expansion, thousands of shout runners come and go, as do many venues. I filled my blacklist with ad spammers in 5.3 and it was full before 5.4 and chat was still being flooded all the time. The term filter wont help either since it will be exploited as people are already using various alternative icons and whatnot to make their ads stand out from the others. The same methods will be applied in order to circumvent this filter. The OP nailed this topic, and the solution. Give them their own smut channel to spam with an hourly post limitation. Then people WHO WANT to see it, can see it, and those who don't want to see it will not have to see it, while preserving the intended use and functionality of shout chat. #MakeEorzeaGreatAgain

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FakeCirka

Asking 14-year-old girls to be in-game hookers basically? Are you okay my dude, or are you self-reporting????

---

Stormpeaks/AlexiaD is a known troll, ignore them.
-some guy, earlier in this thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LianaThorne

If only people stopped paying gil/real money for virtual sex, maybe they'd stop feeling a need to plaster their ads everywhere. This is a self made problem with the degenerate part of this community lol. Brothels and other sex-based venues wouldn't exist if people weren't flooding them every night to jerk off to some random dude cosplaying as a cat girl or bunny.

---

Very true. Terminally horny people are like a virus, they'll try to take over any community they're not heavily moderated in. Unfortunately the devs have have been very lax in keeping these people in check but hopefully the new blacklist and chat filter options largely resolve the issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CidHeiral

Very true. Terminally horny people are like a virus, they'll try to take over any community they're not heavily moderated in. Unfortunately the devs have have been very lax in keeping these people in check but hopefully the new blacklist and chat filter options largely resolve the issue.

---

sounds like bedbugs, cockroaches, ants, fleas, and many other things that i'm fighting against myself with all i have to not say here.

I just treat em like being in a public plaza with people advertising their stuff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1313

The OP nailed this topic, and the solution. Give them their own smut channel to spam with an hourly post limitation. Then people WHO WANT to see it, can see it, and those who don't want to see it will not have to see it, while preserving the intended use and functionality of shout chat. #MakeEorzeaGreatAgain

---

They already have that, the 'other' section of party finder. That's their Smut Channel. Still they spill over and pollute public channels. They know they annoy people too because people literally get paid to advertise because the owners know they'll get blacklisted. They'll still bleed into other channels because they'll always want more than what they're getting.