Yoshi suggests playing WOW for a year

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

Contrary to WoW/FFXI-fanboy-belief, WoW has technically more subs than any MMO market, Company seek to want atleast 30%-50% of those WoW subs, therefore, going FFXI hardcore team play just wont do it.

I can do that too.

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It is unfair to exclude FFXI for inspiration towards FFXIV. While many technical aspects of FFXI are clearly outdated, that doesn't mean that FFXIV can't use other forms of it's successes, like it's approach to story telling in an MMO.

In FFXI, I felt so immersed in that game that I basically called it a second home. It's atmosphere was incredible compared to other MMO's that feel more generic to me (WoW nailed it on atmosphere also.). When I entered a dungeon, I felt that sense of danger and mystery. I felt a rewarded being able to enter Lemuria in CoP for the first time. You had that feeling that you were the central character to the world, you felt like you were the one that had to save it.

Like I said, FFXI is outdated on a technical scale, but it's style sure isn't. Even FFXIV 1.xx succeeded in this in some aspects. It doesn't have to have not out of date gameplay to bring in some inspiration.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

It is unfair to exclude FFXI for inspiration towards FFXIV. While many technical aspects of FFXI are clearly outdated, that doesn't mean that FFXIV can't use other forms of it's successes, like it's approach to story telling in an MMO.

In FFXI, I felt so immersed in that game that I basically called it a second home. It's atmosphere was incredible compared to other MMO's that feel more generic to me (WoW nailed it on atmosphere also.). When I entered a dungeon, I felt that sense of danger and mystery. I felt a rewarded being able to enter Lemuria in CoP for the first time. You had that feeling that you were the central character to the world, you felt like you were the one that had to save it.

Like I said, FFXI is outdated on a technical scale, but it's style sure isn't. Even FFXIV 1.xx succeeded in this in some aspects. It doesn't have to have not out of date gameplay to bring in some inspiration.

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They know this more than anyone else, and they are taking stuff and improving them into FFXIV ARR.

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Originally Posted by tobyx

I think you make a perfectly valid point but it is a matter of taste.

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Gah, lost a giant post. Here's the short version:

Nobody takes LFR seriously. LFR isn't raiding. LFR is like jumping into a random match in TF2 -- it's fun, you get to see some stuff, and sometimes you come out with some sub-par gear to show for it.

Heroic raids are miles more difficult than anything in WoW's past. I could compare how many LFR fights actually require more player skill to complete than BWL fights. This is where a sense of accomplishment and teamwork will come in.

What I want out of FFXIV:ARR is a game where there aren't tedious and stupid tasks that need to be performed for each raid. There's no skill or fun involved in trying to line up 40 people's schedules just to enter a raid that is, let's face it, really easy. If the hardest part of a raid is getting the people online (or any other silly task, like waiting for a boss to spawn at all) then the developers have failed at creating good end-game content.

There's a reason limited lives leading into "Game over, try again from the start!" went the way of the dodo in good game design years ago. That's not challenging, that's tedious. MMOs have also started to evolve in the same way -- make the CONTENT ITSELF challenging, not GETTING TO the content challenging.
Edit - And again, LFR isn't challenging, it's just good ol' superficial fun. It's just as challenging as BWL when you get down to the actual fight mechanics, it's just more accessible.

Could only play WoW for 4 days until I lost interest. For some reason the FF mmo's I can really get into. We'll see how it turns out in beta/release but I just can't turn to another mmo at this point.

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Originally Posted by tobyx

I think you make a perfectly valid point but it is a matter of taste.

I have too played WoW. LFR raids nowadays have nothing to do with raiding or sense of achievement. I would even say that LFR killed WoW. This is not rage but you see subscriber numbers dropping drastically, especially since the annual passes are running out.

Comparing a "Deathwing LFR" to a Vanilla WoW 40-man raid of BWL, there is really nothing to compare. LFR has no sense of scale or achievement. You just enter, push a few buttons and win. It's a dull zerg and it doesn't matter at all if some people are standing around idly other than dodging a few ground AOEs. Back when you had to assemble 40 people on your own, you really felt like you achieved something, even tho the battle mechanics were mundane to follow.

While being able to just jump into a raid might sound awesome on paper, it removes one of the most important things an MMO offers—a community and achieving something together. The LFR would be exactly the same if you just did the encounter on your own with a bunch of bots, except that the bots wouldn't shout at you from time to time. If you dumb down an MMO so that everything is soloable (soloable even being raids where no one communicates or has to bring teamwork skills), you could just release it as a single-player RPG. And it wouldn't be good at that.

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LFR in WoW the the equivalent of easy mode which anyone can play which offers the worst gear. You can't play like Halo on easy mode then proclaim your the best player in the world. Normal and Heroic raids are the real content and are much more challenging.

The reason LFR was good is that it gave people who aren't skilled enough to do Normal or Heroic raids something fun to do and they get to see the content that real raiders get to see. What people get out of doing Normal and Heroic difficulties is way better gear and more of a sense of accomplishment because you beat something hard. An easy mode like LFR definitely has its place for people who aren't that good at the game or are casual can't dedicate time to a raiding guild. Normal and Hard mode raiders are kept happy with better gear drops then LFR. Last I check Blizzard still had 10m WoW subs which is a lot for a MMO, in their most recent press release on their earnings.

Can you imagine a developer suggesting playing FFXIV 1.0 for a year?

wowclonne no thanks. WoW is a horrible game.

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Originally Posted by Ruri

Could only play WoW for 4 days until I lost interest. For some reason the FF mmo's I can really get into. We'll see how it turns out in beta/release but I just can't turn to another mmo at this point.

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Aye, is norm for some people to not like it.

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Originally Posted by Riv

wowclonne no thanks. WoW is a horrible game.

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Do you even read? Lol

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Originally Posted by Riv

wowclonne no thanks. WoW is a horrible game.

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Prepare to be dissapointed then whenever you get in alpha/beta. AAR is at its core an HD WoW clone with a Final Fantasy skin painted over it. If you don't like WoW's quest chain leveling, faster paced combat, jumping, dungeon finder you probably won't like ARR.

It's not a secret Yoshi and his team did get some inspiration from WoW.

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Originally Posted by PinkamenaDiane

Prepare to be dissapointed then whenever you get in alpha/beta. AAR is at its core an HD WoW clone with a Final Fantasy skin painted over it. If you don't like WoW's quest chain leveling, faster paced combat, jumping, dungeon finder you probably won't like ARR.

It's not a secret Yoshi and his team did get some inspiration from WoW.

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Fine with me.

Though inspiration != clone. And WoW's ideas != Only / all originating from WoW.. Not saying you meant that but.. it seems to be a common misconception, didnt want it to be included in my post lol.