Yoshida on "carrying" other people

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Originally Posted by linayar

Thankfully, not everyone thinks that way. And if by chance there is a full party like that, well, that's when people abandon and try again with different groups.

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Maybe not everyone but definitely enough people that the raid finder on the NA side never gets touched. and then people complain they cant do content because its inaccessible.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yeah, a lot of players rarely use their gap closers, as part of their damage combo. Though, it is very odd that it would only be used once. Still that's the bulk of the FFXIV playerbase unfortunately, under-utilizing their kits. SE could probably make this game like ESO or something, with 4 abilities on their bar, and people still would not use the bulk of their skills.

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To be honest it's not difficult to see why players don't. I mean why would you use a gap closer when your already in the bosses face? you cant possibly get any closer.. so there is some sense to it.

the issue comes largely down to how utility in this game isnt used for utility its just spammed for a dps increase.. same way blms often use triple cast basically on cool down for a minor dps increase.. old school stuns and silences were notorious for it.its why they took the damage away from them when they made them role actions. because everyone would just spam them for the tiny dps increase and then if there was something you did actually need to stun it was immune....

Also alot of the time the utility we do have doesn't work. like how a good amount of knockbacks will totally ignore surecast or arms length.. and then players wonder why people dont have them on there hot bars. "cos they tried it a few times and it never works"

all a side effect of highly scripted and predictable fight design which more and more people complain about being dull and boring...

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Originally Posted by linayar

Thankfully, not everyone thinks that way. And if by chance there is a full party like that, well, that's when people abandon and try again with different groups.

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It becomes an issue however when you want to progress some savage but may not have all the time in the world to do so...and then all you get are those kinds of parties. Now you might not immediately notice it, or you might want to give them some time to get warmed up. Then by the time you finally get to a party that is actually trying you have already wasted most of your available time.

The problem is in savage it doesn't even need to be 8 lazy players expecting a carry, it just need to be 1 or maybe 2 to cause the entire party to fail, not even statics are entirely immune to getting a player that expects to get carried.


Get enough of those experiences and you just stop bothering in the first place. I could bet money that we would probably have more people doing savage if they didn't have an absolutely dreadful experience the first few times they tried. Nobody likes to feel like they just wasted hours of their life for nothing.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Maybe not everyone but definitely enough people that the raid finder on the NA side never gets touched. and then people complain they cant do content because its inaccessible.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

It becomes an issue however when you want to progress some savage but may not have all the time in the world to do so...and then all you get are those kinds of parties. Now you might not immediately notice it, or you might want to give them some time to get warmed up. Then by the time you finally get to a party that is actually trying you have already wasted most of your available time.

The problem is in savage it doesn't even need to be 8 lazy players expecting a carry, it just need to be 1 or maybe 2 to cause the entire party to fail, not even statics are entirely immune to getting a player that expects to get carried.


Get enough of those experiences and you just stop bothering in the first place. I could bet money that we would probably have more people doing savage if they didn't have an absolutely dreadful experience the first few times they tried. Nobody likes to feel like they just wasted hours of their life for nothing.

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Well, the focus of this thread is normal content difficulty.

I think Extreme/Savage/Ultimate do have increased responsibility, so I don't think this thread applies to those contents. Even if the people who are used to getting carried were to expect the same thing from the more difficult content, I think failing would make them realize there is a difference. I can't imagine that none of them would think to either improve or decide those contents are not for them after all (or to wait until they can be unsynced or to go for an official carry).

I have a crappy internet connection that likes to buffer during crucial moments. I'm lucky I have a Savage group that understands, but 24-man content is great because if I disconnect at a bad moment, I won't leave only 7 other people in the lurch - there's enough people to spready my responsibility around long enough for me to un-freeze or to log back in if I got a hard 90000.

(I risked going in on healer to Tower last night and got lucky.... no disconnect! Just one death to my own stupidity. And a cute healing top to boot.)

I used to run 24 mans a lot, usually on a weekly basis to get those coin-based upgrades.

Ever since Wiping City though, they've usually been colossal death-fests for me. Dun Scaith (which felt drastically easier than Wiping City) was just about the only exception. Thus from Stormblood onward, I've been a lot less inspired to farm weekly drops. Case in point, I've only ever been in Paradigm's Breach once for the clear. (It doesn't help that the raid's aesthetics are incredibly dull and monochrome enough to additionally contribute toward me not wanting to run it again, but that's a whole other argument.)

It doesn't even really matter to me if the raids as a whole are still "easy" enough that groups might clear it without wiping despite me being dead most of the time; I still don't enjoy replaying content where I'm still struggling enough to see/understand the mechanics that I just die over and over. That isn't fun for me to play... so I just don't end up playing it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Suffice it to say, I wouldn't be in support of making the 24 mans harder.

I actually haven't done the last raid for Nier at all myself. I'll get to it at some point though. Probably. Coin-based upgrades just haven't been that appealing to me, to be honest. An up to date weapon is your most important gear and I have that, and since I'm not farming extremes or doing savage there is even less of an urgency to have my gear more than 520-525, frankly.

All these people: But I don't wanna carry!

Yoshi-P:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...047986/800.gif

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

All these people: But I don't wanna carry!

Yoshi-P:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...047986/800.gif

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Yep! Soon this game will be accessible for everyone worldwide! I think it'll be particularly popular among orangutans one day.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yep! Soon this game will be accessible for everyone worldwide! I think it'll be particularly popular among orangutans one day.

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Our primate brethren would probably be better than most people I encounter in DF. Also I wonder if this feeds into the long running issue of player retention at level cap?

Overall from a growth of population aspect having harder smaller form content is in a nebulous spot. Most likely it would seen some decent level of participation especially if the rewards, gameplay loop were engaging enough but that small form will also be inviting to more causal players but the learning curve may be too great which runs the risk of alienating a large part of the population.

To a degree I would love for a mythic + system to be brought over to FFXIV but due to the design choices by Yoshi-P I do not think this community could handle the uptick in personal accountability a smaller scale dungeon would place. By in large the level of accountability for a smaller group in harder content is on average greater even if they are tuned to be similar in difficultly just by nature of having fewer people to cover mistakes.

I do not think many savage raiders would welcome that level of accountability increase let alone the general player base.