Square Enix: Please reconsider putting the Native American war bonnet attire in-game.

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Originally Posted by cakesphere

I don't care if you respect or disrespect a religion as long as you're applying the rules equally.

Nobody seems upset that a LOT of HW gear is clearly inspired by the sacred vestments of the Catholic Church. Why are you only upset about war bonnets? What makes you able to determine which religious clothing items are or aren't offensive to include? Do you think Catholics have never been oppressed?

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I am not upset about either. If you'd read my posts, you might have known that. I have no personal stake in either, and I don't think I have a right to say whether either should stay or go when I am not in either respective group. What I do think is that clothing of religious significance shouldn't be compared to a pair of pants or a fedora. You think the headdress is inoffensive? That's perfectly fine, but don't act like it's the same thing to Native Americans as a pair of sneakers is to a white person.

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Originally Posted by Immut

If you wanted to complain about Native American culture being appropriated in this game you should've done it when the Vanu were introduced along with the Haka dance. You're late to the game and now y'all just look like the sum total of your knowledge is that you saw an injun on a stamp once.

And yes I know it's Maori, but you're not seriously going to try to argue that one indigenous tribe is somehow better than another.

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Exactly, and even before the Vanu, the Ixal are basically the Aztecs.

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Originally Posted by Tevatron

I understand Japan has a different sensibility of what constitutes racism, bigotry, and appropriation, but given that this game is localised for different regions and given America has just recently been dealing with this exact issue and many Native Americans finding the appropriation and debasement of war bonnets offensive, perhaps this isn't appropriate in the NA-localisation.

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Then..just don't wear it? What happened to our ability to JUST NOT DO IT if we think something is bad? Why does it have to be banned for everyone because ONE group of players has a heritage of treating their fellow humans pretty shitty for the longest time?
In the end, it's a bunch of feathers. Whatever meaning you apply to it is your meaning only and does not apply to everyone else. Stop pushing your values onto others. If it's a sacred tradition to you that you do not feel you deserve to wear, don't wear it. For someone else it's just Ixal style headgear, who are you to ban them from wearing it because it has a different meaning to you?

I might think it is right for a woman to cover her body, does that mean I try and get SE to ban bikinis and revealing gear because I consider it inherently wrong for ALL women to hop around semi-naked? Of course not. I'll just not wear it myself (and maybe won't commend that kind of behaviour in other players) but in the end, everyone has (and SHOULD have!) the right to do with their lives/bodies/characters whatever they want.

You know that everyone in your tribe knows the meaning of the war bonnet, so in your community, the meaning will not change no matter how many people outside of it wear it as a Halloween costume or glamour ingame.

(All later 'you's in this post are general yous and not specifically targeted at the quoted post)

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Originally Posted by Saharan

I have to wonder just how many of the people in this thread throwing accusations of "SWJism" would throw a hissy fit if they saw some 16-year-old kid wearing a full-on military combat uniform as a Halloween costume, or even just to "look cool". It's similar, in a way. They both have significant cultural value to the culture they belong to, and it's upsetting to see them stripped of that value.

It's not the same thing as a cowboy outfit, either; these aren't "costumes" used by our ancestors long since passed. They're in use today. We're not dead and gone, we're very much around. People still use these kinds of outfits all the time! Powwows aren't some long-since-forgotten event; I went to one just last month!

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Headdresses are very much costumes. Ceremonial gear of any kind is by definition a costume.

By contrast, a cowboy outfit is NOT a costume. Cowboys wear leather because it's plentiful. Leather is actually very good for outdoor wear, since it doesn't get soggy from your sweat and protects you from various work related injuries. It's obviously become more glorified by media, but it's still practical work attire, since your biggest enemies in extended outdoor work are sun and sweat.

I know this because I'm in the US Army, and the US Army HATES their uniform because it's the exact opposite of practical. It is the worst uniform ever made. It is scratchy, doesn't breathe, doesn't fit right, doesn't keep you warm, takes forever to dry if it gets wet, the velcro stops working anywhere from a few months to the day after you get it, ironing or steaming it is against regulations because it neutralizes the chemical treatments, and it's poorly sewn by military prisoners in Ft Leavenworth. So most of the time it looks like we ARE that 16 year old who got a uniform out of the dumpster. It's very difficult for us to respect the uniform when the uniforms (and the people who designed them) don't respect us. Although I hear the Navy has a really nice work uniform. With denim.

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Originally Posted by KaitlanKela

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If you look throughout the series as a whole, organized religions in the various Final Fantasy games don't usually fare very well. But that's the an entirely different discussion. Game theory did a video on it you might want to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLhiWw3pzQk

First the wrangler's set and now the war bonnet, clearly SE just wants to let Bards and Machinists play Cowboys and Indians.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

If you look throughout the series as a whole, organized religions in the various Final Fantasy games don't usually fare very well. But that's the an entirely different discussion. Game theory did a video on it you might want to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLhiWw3pzQk

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Yeah, I'm a fan of the series. Tactics and X were particularly rough.

But I also understand the context. Eastern Philosophy often butts heads with Western more organized religion, and these games are made in Japan. It's a meeting of two different cultures and anyone who looks at it through that perspective doesn't take offense. It's pretty understandable.

Normally I don't post in threads like this, but I'll make an exception becuase I want point out there is a ethnic styled outfit that wasn't supposed to be in the JP/EU/NA clients. One that was mentioned in the same live letter that revealed the War Bonnet, and one that the posters basically had to fight tooth and nail to get in these clients in the first place. I feel the latter detail is important, as well as the existence of native inspired elements (The Ixal and Vanu Vanu, not to mention Quetzacoatl being a summon in other FF games) and other ethnic outfits in the game, both with no outrage to their inclusion (and before you mention the Sundrop Dance I want to remind you that its mere existence wasn't the contentious part, it was how the emote looked in female characters)

I'm gonna go back to lurking this thread now

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Originally Posted by Shofie

I'll try to keep this as succinct as possible.

War bonnets are extremely sensitive cultural items that are generally "restricted" items. That is, it is offensive for non-Native Americans to wear them, or anyone to wear them who hasn't earned the right to do so.

They are earned through acts of heroism and putting them in the game where player characters can access them at all is trampling all over Native Americans.

Native American cultural attire is not a costume.

Especiallythe war bonnets.

Please consider removing the war bonnet from the upcoming patch. It is deeply offensive and racist to include it.

Thank you.

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Why. Just why. This doesn't fit the lore of the game and is just shoehorning something in to satisfy some political correctness or other.

Just say NO!.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Why. Just why. This doesn't fit the lore of the game and is just shoehorning something in to satisfy some political correctness or other.

Just say NO!.

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We have two tribal beast tribes in the game... The Vanu and Ixali are both based off a mix of aboriginal cultures.