Required Class/Rank failed - Can we have Optimal Rank and Favoured Class back?

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

The fact that the system was voted out by the player poles says enough. It's going away because it was flawed, just like the MW, and just like the Action Bar. This game needs serious streamlining if it wants any share of the MMO market, and this is just one of the many lumps of fat that needed to be trimmed.

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Not to mention every MMO I've played from the 90s to now have some sort of restriction or requirement on gear. It's pretty standard RPG fare.

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Originally Posted by AamesxDavid

which isn't a benefit for the player.

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Balance isn't of benefit to the player? Do you seriously believe this? Wow. Just...wow.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

I've been using macros to change classes pretty much since launch, so I don't have the OP's issue of getting naked every time I switch classes. Lern2macro. They're eventually going to have gear be auto equipped when you do switch classes, so you won't even have to macro in the near future.

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Macoring is an even greater waste of my time.

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The "favor system" doesn't work as well as designated gear because a) it's more confusing to newbies/less streamlined or easy to explain and b) it's harder to balance for the devs. Pretty much any gear that is worth a damn is going to be class locked, because it's easier for the dev team to balance how future gear will scale.

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Favour system isnt confusing to newbies. Now that the penalty is displayed in the UI, it's perfectly clear. The required system is what's confusing. Why do I have to be holding a specific tool to be able to wear a specific hat?

Last time I checked, I don't take off my socks everytime I pick up a fork.

It's funny how you mention it being harder for the devs. That's the price they pay to implement a good system. Every other MMO takes the easy route. SE originally chose the high road and now you want them to take the low road because it's easier?

It's easier for them but harder for us. Harder and not better.

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I don't know about you, but I'm tired of looking at the wards, seeing five things that "favor" my class, and wondering what the hell I SHOULD be wearing. This applies more to DoH and DoL for me, but I have this problem with belts, shoes, and pants on my DoW and DoM classes. The "favor" system was confusing, and pointless to anybody who wants to wear gear that works for their class.

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You are still beset by such wonderings even now. If you didn't want options maybe you should have tried playing a Prisoner of War cell under the rule of Chairman Mao in Communist China or 1984 or something instead of playing FFXIV.

Just a suggestion.

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tl;dr: It's more streamlined for the devs, and easier on the users to have class/level specific gear.

Also, the OP claims that this current system doesn't work, yet I've never heard anybody complain about it aside from a handful of people on the forums, and a few RPers here and there.

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Actually, it is less streamlined for the players. it's annoying for the players. It's confusing for the players.

I've heard lots of people complaing about this.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

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Also, when you're using high level gear on a low level character it's usually gimped to the point that it's worse than gear at your level.

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Get this on your thick head: We are - NOT - talking about using gear with god knows how many levels difference and it still being useful; we are talking about being able to use gear with 3-5 level dif and it properly punishing the player without being completely useless, thus allowing quick class changing without the need for multiple gear sets and macros just because you might want to mine a single node and two and go back to killing things. This was the whole mentality behind the optmal level system, NOT using level 50 gear on you R25 character while you raid Toto-Rak.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

Edit - I also love that you guys are completely avoiding the fact that Yoshi P stated that class/level locked gear benefits the game as a whole in regard to content and class balancing.

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Yoshi-P saying it doesn't mean some people might not completely agree with him and can't provide a few arguments against it, even tho we all know this won't change. This is what we're all doing here, by the way.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

Further proof that your entire argument is based on "I was used to it, I liked it, I want to look pretty, and I don't want to have to switch gear". Stop being so damn selfish.

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Wait. You're the ones saying people shouldn't be using gear a few levels above them just because people are too dumb to properly gear themsellfs (false), that everyone will just buy level 50 gear (false), and, let's be honest here, because that just happens to be the system you're more confortable with, and 'we' are the selfish ones?

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Originally Posted by Aleczan

So that not everyone looks identical?

This is just me and my fashion preference, but I find it so wrong to have universal equipment which do not restrict anything at all, albeit level or class. I like how my Miner & Fisher, Culinarian & Carpenter, Pugilist, Conjurer, and Lancer all look different and distinguished from each other. I also like how I see other person and be able to guess their class or class type at first glance. Without gear restriction, it would be so monotonous and boring. It's just natural that different classes has different array of available armors. It's against my common sense and fashion sense to think that an Archer or Pugilist should be able to wear heavy armor or plated armor just like Marauder or Gladiator. So I don't see anything wrong with having restriction.

Also, I am not saying that having optimal level system was bad. It's just that it is not that bad to change over. You can't tailor the game to fit everyone's preference and/or convenience. But currently I (and many people) see that there's already a game mechanism that's helping you deal with the "inconvenience" in the game (in this case, Macro, my greatest helper ever since before they implemented Action Bar saving for each class,) so the point most people (or at least the OP) are complaining about (stripping naked when change class) is just a trivial problem and can be easily worked out with some effort.

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Restriction is what makes everyone look the same.

Do you honestly not realise that?

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Not to mention every MMO I've played from the 90s to now have some sort of restriction or requirement on gear. It's pretty standard RPG fare.

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Funny how when jump is "standard mmo fare" you are against it, but when it's anything pertaining to FFXI, you're all for it. People will use the "it's a standard!" argument to support anything they want, but really that is not a good argument at all.

After all, regardless of whether it is "standard" or not, a system should be argued on its own merits. Preserving the status quo "just because that's how it has always been done" is not a sound basis for an argument.

The Optimal Rank system was not standard. It was above standard.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Restriction is what makes everyone look the same.

Do you honestly not realise that?

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Being able to wear anything and everything you want unrestricted isn't any better. Restrictions doesn't cause everyone to look the same, gear with the best stats does no matter the system.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Funny how when jump is "standard mmo fare" you are against it, but when it's anything pertaining to FFXI, you're all for it.

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Jump is useless in 99% of it's implementations -- It's only an animation. Only a few MMOs actually put it to use, so having a "standard jump animation" can actually be done without.

Also, XI wasn't the only MMO to exist that stated "You must be (x level/stat base) to wear this piece of armor/weapon."

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

I've seen lots of complaints from non RPers that it's a bad system.

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"non RPers"

I'm not an "RPer" and I still like the Optimal Rank system. Not everyone who hates restricted rank/level is a RPer.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

Get this on your thick head: We are - NOT - talking about using gear with god knows how many levels difference and it still being useful; we are talking about being able to use gear with 3-5 level dif and it properly punishing the player without being completely useless, thus allowing quick class changing without the need for multiple gear sets and macros just because you might want to mine a single node and two and go back to killing things. This was the whole mentality behind the optmal level system, NOT using level 50 gear on you R25 character while you raid Toto-Rak.

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Optimal Level gear will still be in the game if that is what you're arguing for.

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Yoshi-P saying it doesn't mean some people might not completely agree with him and can't provide a few arguments against it, even tho we all know this won't change. This is what we're all doing here, by the way.

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No, the OP is claiming that the current system doesn't work, when it works best according to the devs, and the majority of the player base.

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Wait. You're the ones saying people shouldn't be using gear a few levels above them just because people are too dumb to properly gear themsellfs (false), that everyone will just buy level 50 gear (false), and, let's be honest here, because that just happens to be the system you're more confortable with, and 'we' are the selfish ones?

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All of my points come from experience. I see people wearing gear that is not "optimal" for them on a daily basis. Also I am arguing for the current system because it is a system that works and is more user friendly for most of the community that is in the game, as well as potential subscribers. I am also arguing for the current system because it helps with instance, boss, materia, and job/class/level balance. All of which influence a more healthy game than your "I don't want to have to carry multiple sets of gear on me" argument. You have 200 friggin' item slots. I carry gear for 4 different classes at a time, and still have room to spare (and I did so before the inventory boost). Your other arguments were stronger than that.