Why is "It's something to do" apparently a valid defense?

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Originally Posted by Moqi

People usually expect things to change after a while to keep the game interesting instead of feeling "been there, done that" at the release of a new expansion.

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You tell me what else has changed in other games? Expansions usually increase with new zones, etc. Expansions are typically built on the core of the existing game. Again it just seems people want a new game every expansion/patch.

The Sims Expansions are pretty great on building upon existing mechanics. Roller Coaster Tycoon did expansions right too.

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Originally Posted by Sardonia

You tell me what else has changed in other games? Expansions usually increase with new zones, etc. Expansions are typically built on the core of the existing game. Again it just seems people want a new game every expansion/patch.

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I think you exaggerating.. I do not think anyone wants something every patch but yes with a expansion you expect something new. You are right most expansion draws off the core game but that does not mean you should not get something new either... The question to those who defend this, when should we be upset when we still have not got something new in the way of combat? when 3.0 comes out? when we have 100 cookie cutter dungeons and fates. There already so many SE is already talking about shutting some down.

I have allot of time in this game and do not want to feel like this right now. I have a hard time getting on anymore. I work hard at work and I need a escape but when a game becomes no fun? I want the game to improve so I want to continue to play. It is like some here are ok if the the game never gets any better. no imagination.

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Originally Posted by Lyshell

It's a valid defense because you people whine moan and complain there is nothing to do and then are given something that you can't blow through in 2 days and then you whine moan and complain about it being too long. You people can't be happy.

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I don't think you honestly believe what you just wrote, because you'd have to be blind not to see the obvious complaints are quite justified.

The reason there's discontent is because everything is the same. I log in, I do my dailies, I log out. That's about as much fun as I get and that's only because I foolishly paid up my subscription for months in advance. I'm getting tomes for new gear. This gear is not special and is basically a glamor with a few extra HP attached. This endless treadmill of grinding for the sake of grinding, just so we can do more grinding is a horrible way to press forward.

Only an idiot would allow this trend to continue without saying something. If you don't make your voice heard, it's as good as affirming their decisions. It's basically saying they're doing a grand job, and you're happy to get the same bland content patch after patch. Well, here's my take. I need to see some real changes soon. This game is getting old fast, and it's going to start driving players away. When that happens, content will worsen due a lack of revenue and become even more stale, and eventually it will lead to the games downfall.

I've seen what happens when MMO's grow stale, and it's not fun. It's high time Yoshi started growing our characters outwards rather than purely upwards.

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Originally Posted by Sardonia

You tell me what else has changed in other games? Expansions usually increase with new zones, etc. Expansions are typically built on the core of the existing game. Again it just seems people want a new game every expansion/patch.

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Final Fantasy XI. You want to know what they did there? Steady level cap rises, new zones which were actually challenging to fully explore, new jobs, new mechanics. New unique equipment that was worth owning even at high levels (not just gear which has +1 vitality). Limbus. Dynamis. Each expansion was hugely meaningful and added something new to be enjoyed for months to come.

To be honest, where FFXIV mostly falls flat is the complete lack of any reason to stay in the zones once you've completed their quests. Fates just aren't motivation enough, and they're too easy to have any kind of challenge to exploration. FFXI at least had conquest and the WoTG equivalent, with city states fighting over control. You also gained meaningful XP from enemies in the field, so experience parties were commonplace.

If they just made the overworld a bit more meaningful, they could solve a lot of problems in one sweep.

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Originally Posted by Sardonia

You tell me what else has changed in other games? Expansions usually increase with new zones, etc. Expansions are typically built on the core of the existing game. Again it just seems people want a new game every expansion/patch.

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Changes or addition to job mechanics and gameplay. For starters, BRD and NIN feels mostly the same compared to their 2.0 counterpart, while MCH feels like a reskinned BRD at times.

They added features like FC crafting, airship voyages, and the such, but it ended up reusing existing concepts (item turn ins, retainer ventures) rather than becoming it's own identity (like having multiple FC members work on a single craft instead of turning in crafted items).

If we were to take a look at WoW;


TBC - Added flying, an entirely new crafting profession, allowing both factions to access to new jobs (paladin and shaman), new races (and in a game that has racials, this is a pretty big deal)
WotlK - New crafting profession, Dungeon finder, an entirely new class, vehicles complete with their own UI, and an entire area dedicated to open world PvP

It's only until catacylsm (imo) and onward they started falling off. They had new additions like new races and a new class, but it ended up losing substance from other areas like end game. WoD from my perspective is a gigantic flop because one of their big features, the garrisons, is not nessescarly well recieved for what you're doing with it (think airship exploration and retainer venture), except the end game is also tied to it. Combine that with them taking things away from existing jobs and not necessarily giving them new things to work with. My hunter is gaining only one new ability from the entire 90-100 process, and that's only at level 100.

Heck even in WoW, despite having longer lulls in between content patches, they are usually accompanie with new areas, new questing hubs and recipes. Timeless Isle, despite being in MoP expansion, is arguably one of my favorite additions to the game for catch up and as a daily hub.

I can see you point, however, people keep saying they are tired of rehashed content but do not give any thoughts of what they actually do want. So what do people actually want that would be new to them, that would not be the same as trials, dungeons or raids?

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

in my opinion they should make the relic a 10 times harder grind, but let the weapon -once you get it- rank up automatically with every major patch, that it stays on top of all weapons forever

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Hmm, exp bar for the relic. It will start at ilevel 1 and while killing enemies it gain exp until it level up to the highest ilevel of the current update.
around 100 000 enemies to bring it from ilevel 209 to 210

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Final Fantasy XI. You want to know what they did there? Steady level cap rises, new zones which were actually challenging to fully explore, new jobs, new mechanics. New unique equipment that was worth owning even at high levels (not just gear which has +1 vitality). Limbus. Dynamis. Each expansion was hugely meaningful and added something new to be enjoyed for months to come.

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I never played XI but every single person I know has told me nightmare stories of being kicked from groups for not making your mammet a specific way, or ridiculed across the server for not doing your class/subclass in specific combos to the point that you'd NEVER get groups together. All the horror stories I hear of XI makes me think it's not the best judge of "good" MMO practices

Why do people want to make others agree that some content is bad?

Their opinion that it's "meh" or that "it's something to do" is their response/opinion. It's just as valid as saying "it sucks".

I more think people that want to dissuade the "white knights" are the actual white knights in this case. The ones people call "white knights" are defending their hobby. The people dissuading them, what are they trying to do? They want to make people think their hobby is flawed? I don't like try to "save" people that have hobbies that don't look fun to me. Am I gonna break into a knitting convention and say "What are you people doing with your lives!?" Trying to "save" other people is the actual "white knight" here. Everyone else is just defending their hobby. They aren't going to defend it if it's not doing anything for them. Even if it's just a vessel to hang out with their buddies.

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Originally Posted by Cherie

Why do people want to make others agree that some content is bad?

Their opinion that it's "meh" or that "it's something to do" is their response/opinion. It's just as valid as saying "it sucks".

I more think people that want to dissuade the "white knights" are the actual white knights in this case. The ones people call "white knights" are defending their hobby. The people dissuading them, what are they trying to do? They want to make people think their hobby is flawed? I don't like try to "save" people that have hobbies that don't look fun to me. Am I gonna break into a knitting convention and say "What are you people doing with your lives!?" Trying to "save" other people is the actual "white knight" here. Everyone else is just defending their hobby. They aren't going to defend it if it's not doing anything for them. Even if it's just a vessel to hang out with their buddies.

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People post here in the hopes that their complaints will be passed on to the devs so they can see an actual change, not to dissaude "white knights" from liking the game. The problem is, we're bringing up (in our eyes) valid issues / complaints, and people are just saying "no this game is perfect go play something else if you don't like it". While they may feel that way, aren't people who are dissatisfied also entitled to have their voices be heard, especially by the devs? They want to appeal to as many players as possible, and if something isn't resonating with the players, shouldn't we try to let them know?