How would you feel if they scrapped the current "classes"?

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Originally Posted by MarkH

While I agree with you that every war/nin is just about the same, I think that that fact contribute positively to the formation of party as when I invited someone with a specific main job/sub job combination, i know exactly what I'm getting.

another problem i see with this system is that I feel like whatever DoW job i play, it's the same experience, whether pug lnc gla, archer feel a litte different. While with the main/sub system of FFXI, even though every war/nin play the same, my sam and my war and my rng play differently.

And even within just one job, the play style is different when I play sam/war as oppose to sam/thf or sam/nin or sam/drg. sam/way I just deal damage and back up tank/ first voke for sata. As sam/thf I help with hate control. and that's just for party, sam/dnc is viable for solo play.

For other job I have to say that while i play smn/whm in party all the time, out of party sometime I go smn/sam as with Spirit Taker and Elemental Siphon, i never need to rest. For ranger in party I have went rng/nin and rng/sam. and for mission (specifically feast for gnat) i went with /war.

So I feel like the way of FFXI is flexible enough that I can change my main/sub job combination to fit in the need of the mission at hand while keeping the jobs unique that I feel each of my job play differently.

I also like the freedom that as sam I can use Great Katana and Polearm. I use polearm on my sam when in my 50s when we get penta thrust (and also for royal jelly) and great katana elsewhere. And the fact that it can use almost every weapon in the game is why I leveled war in the first place..

So to me, I would prefer a system where classes are not tied to weapon and where each class can be unique so that when I play a different class, I feel like I'm playing a different class. Does not necessary have to be FFXI's way, but I just hate this IKEA, build it yourself, job system.

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Teach me the way of the Samurai, Master! Here's one dude who knows what Character Uniqueness is all about. Bravo, my friend.

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Originally Posted by Aramil

I agree, that would be amazing, the only problem is that if you want multiple classes in a game, you need balance otherwise everyone will use the same classes. So to balance, unless you make all the classes exactly the same, you need to give weakness to balance the strength. By introducing strength and weakness, if the players can customize their character even a little(chose skill or stats for example) you just introduce the concept of "best" build(max the strength and min the weakness).

It's sad but as long as there's customization available, the community will expect everyone to use the best build.

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Actually I forgot to add something to my last post ^^;

There is a way to achieve what you seem to want, to let everyone play more or less as they want without having to do exactly the same thing as every other players.

That way is to have so many customizable stuff, so many choices that the amount of "best" build is so high that there's one for every kind of players. An example for this would be D&D the pen and paper rpg(not sure about D&Donline since i haven't try it). I'm using it since i haven't see any mmo offer that many possible customization. With all the books available, between the skills, classes, prestige classes, feat, items, spells, stats, etc, you could min/max(if you wanted) almost any kind of characters from single class like plain warrior, to multi classes with a ridiculous amount of prestige classes to melee/spellcaster hybrid, etc).

If they could achieve something like that it would be perfect. Well not completely since players who prefer a more simple style of gaming would probably hate it. Also I doubt it could be achieve in a mmo because it require too much balancing. For a pen and paper game it's fine since the gm can just nerf something that's too powerful, go with a compromise or whatever since he's not bound by the rules but for a mmo, the balance would need to be redone everytime something too powerful is found. So just because of the time and staff needed it would be unthinkable.

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Originally Posted by MarkH

While I agree with you that every war/nin is just about the same, I think that that fact contribute positively to the formation of party as when I invited someone with a specific main job/sub job combination, i know exactly what I'm getting.

another problem i see with this system is that I feel like whatever DoW job i play, it's the same experience, whether pug lnc gla, archer feel a litte different. While with the main/sub system of FFXI, even though every war/nin play the same, my sam and my war and my rng play differently.

And even within just one job, the play style is different when I play sam/war as oppose to sam/thf or sam/nin or sam/drg. sam/way I just deal damage and back up tank/ first voke for sata. As sam/thf I help with hate control. and that's just for party, sam/dnc is viable for solo play.

For other job I have to say that while i play smn/whm in party all the time, out of party sometime I go smn/sam as with Spirit Taker and Elemental Siphon, i never need to rest. For ranger in party I have went rng/nin and rng/sam. and for mission (specifically feast for gnat) i went with /war.

So I feel like the way of FFXI is flexible enough that I can change my main/sub job combination to fit in the need of the mission at hand while keeping the jobs unique that I feel each of my job play differently.

I also like the freedom that as sam I can use Great Katana and Polearm. I use polearm on my sam when in my 50s when we get penta thrust (and also for royal jelly) and great katana elsewhere. And the fact that it can use almost every weapon in the game is why I leveled war in the first place..

So to me, I would prefer a system where classes are not tied to weapon and where each class can be unique so that when I play a different class, I feel like I'm playing a different class. Does not necessary have to be FFXI's way, but I just hate this IKEA, build it yourself, job system.

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Well... for one thing nobody WAR/NIN's anymore unless they're skilling up. Great Axe is the new godking, so everyone WAR/SAM's now.

Getting back to the original topic though, I actually do like the current classes and how they've implemented them into the story of the game. If you look at their 'standard' garb, it's plain to see that a MRD is not a WAR, and it's not exactly a COR, especially when you look at the way that COR was implemented in FFXI. ARC's really aren't the same as RNG either, since you won't be seeing any guns on them (yes, I'm anticipating the Musketeer class...) Additionally, GLA's are most definitely not PLD's, with the Coliseum totally not reeking of honor and valor... and PUG's aren't MNK's, nor are they THF's (really they look to me like the Dread Pirate Roberts from The Princess Bride. ;) ) And since when can WHM's cast Flare?

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Originally Posted by Rosalie

Well... for one thing nobody WAR/NIN's anymore unless they're skilling up. Great Axe is the new godking, so everyone WAR/SAM's now.

Getting back to the original topic though, I actually do like the current classes and how they've implemented them into the story of the game. If you look at their 'standard' garb, it's plain to see that a MRD is not a WAR, and it's not exactly a COR, especially when you look at the way that COR was implemented in FFXI. ARC's really aren't the same as RNG either, since you won't be seeing any guns on them (yes, I'm anticipating the Musketeer class...) Additionally, GLA's are most definitely not PLD's, with the Coliseum totally not reeking of honor and valor... and PUG's aren't MNK's, nor are they THF's (really they look to me like the Dread Pirate Roberts from The Princess Bride. ;) ) And since when can WHM's cast Flare?

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We're not trying to disturb the foundations on which these classes were made. I absolutely love the fact that they are attempting a different route with the classes. However after saying this, what I do not like is how loose the characteristics are displayed.

What we're trying to say is that Freedom of customization is great! But too much Freedom takes away the profound uniqueness of the class system. I do not want the main/sub combo back, but rather a main class that can pick from other classes certain abilities that would not take away from the uniqueness of the other classes.

My case in point for abilities would be such as Berserk, Elemental Seal, and Focus. All those abilities could help the main job, but never did it help in a way that made the job from which you take these abilities from, completely destroy the job and make it useless. That's the level of restriction that I desire in order to bring about the Character Uniqueness I seek.

I'm for it. The current classes have no special meaning to me at all. I keep wanting to be attached, but can't.

I would like them to scrap the current class names and go with the traditional FF names. Gladiator is more fitting for Lineage, and rift, but seem out of place to me, being a long time FF player.

Before I continue, my resume includes, FF 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10-2, 11, 12, 13, 14, mystic quest(go ahead laugh), tactics and advanced 1/2, Dissidia if you count that.

If they do add the traditional classes I hope abilities and traits are something like this.

1. Weapon skills are tied to weapon, and there are some ws's that can only be used by certain classes.

2. Weapons are no longer tied to classes. Let people just change classes now with the same prerequisite, i.e. in passive mode, and no one in party is engaging the enemy.

3. Some abilities are tied to certain classes, likely being the staple abilities of each class, while the rest can be accessed by every class in the same manner as they are now.

4. Traits are treated like abilities, except they are passive, of course.

I really like how SE are being more vocal, and more importantly, I like how they are trying different things. I think this "catastrophe" may for them to stop and brain storm, maybe returning them to their forward glory, and if not, well, I guess I'll be gaming a lot less.

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Originally Posted by Vaymathias

I would like them to scrap the current class names and go with the traditional FF names. Gladiator is more fitting for Lineage, and rift, but seem out of place to me, being a long time FF player.

Before I continue, my resume includes, FF 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10-2, 11, 12, 13, 14, mystic quest(go ahead laugh), tactics and advanced 1/2, Dissidia if you count that.

If they do add the traditional classes I hope abilities and traits are something like this.

1. Weapon skills are tied to weapon, and there are some ws's that can only be used by certain classes.

2. Weapons are no longer tied to classes. Let people just change classes now with the same prerequisite, i.e. in passive mode, and no one in party is engaging the enemy.

3. Some abilities are tied to certain classes, likely being the staple abilities of each class, while the rest can be accessed by every class in the same manner as they are now.

4. Traits are treated like abilities, except they are passive, of course.

I really like how SE are being more vocal, and more importantly, I like how they are trying different things. I think this "catastrophe" may for them to stop and brain storm, maybe returning them to their forward glory, and if not, well, I guess I'll be gaming a lot less.

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Although I agree with your points of view, I hardly care about the renaming of the classes. Only one's I would consider would be the Conjurer & Thaumaturge.

With your points to the weapons, I'm game. I really loved the skill point system on weapon's from XI.

I agree, I think the weaponskill should be tied to weapon as well. I believe that the fact that any weapon can use most weaponskill now contribute to the lackluster weaponskill animation. I just don't think they can make your character bash the enemy serveral times a la Raging Rush if the same animation has to work with a bow.

I think this is why currently the best looking animation (i.e. Arrow Helix) are class specific

Yes. But like Vaymathias said about weaponskills. They are tied to the weapon, but there are still certain weaponskills that are only class specific.

That's alright. As long as the Dev don't have to think of how my Great Axe weaponskill animation will look like when I use a polearm, I think they can come up with some excellent animation.