Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

another week with 0 loot

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Got the gloves finally this week, 3rd drop in 13 weeks. :(
Haven't done T13 yet, we'll see if spear drops, none on server yet.

The best accessories you should play around with are:

Earrings: 18ACC/18CRT/13DET/9SS -or- 9ACC/18CRT/13DET/18SS (Latter usually comes out on top)
Rings: 18ACC/18CRT/6DET/19SS -and/or- 9ACC/18CRT/12DET/19SS

Bracelets and Necklace are extremely situational.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

The best accessories you should play around with are:

Earrings: 18ACC/18CRT/13DET/9SS -or- 9ACC/18CRT/13DET/18SS (Latter usually comes out on top)
Rings: 18ACC/18CRT/6DET/19SS -and/or- 9ACC/18CRT/12DET/19SS

Bracelets and Necklace are extremely situational.

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rings are like 15mil each to meld and earrings 7m

not sure how much stat weights we are getting with a gear set with earrings or earrings and both rings since the sets you posted used choker too.

I honestly wouldn't personally recommend the set you recommend with crafted rings and crafted chokers. That would be like 52mil for 3 str and that's mega steep to me especially with nothing to really use it for and I'm not lacking gil.

Think we should look into the +stats on using just the earrings as thats the cheapest to meld at like maybe 7mil.

Well, if you did go for that max crafted meld set I posted a few weeks ago, then you'd want this:

STR: 663
ACC: 353
CRT: 584
DET: 408
SS: 411
Weighting: 1043.617
DPS: 578.63133
Raid STR: 593.35988
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PAAG

Sadly, if you've invested into those boots already, then... :( The earrings are so good for us DRGs all because of the Accuracy on it.

The only way to use both the boots and crafted earrings would be to change the melds on your gloves to 9 ACC/ 25 CRT/ 18 DET/ 25 SS. You'd then switch out to using 9 ACC/18CRT/13DET/18SS Earring melds.

Unless you go for 2 i110 accessories? 9ACC/18CRT/13DET/18SS basically on both Ring and Earring.

Any idea if any of the World of Darkness gear is any good? I have only seen the Gloves so far and they have Det and Skill Speed on them. Not an improvement on the Astrum ones I don't think.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Well, if you did go for that max crafted meld set I posted a few weeks ago, then you'd want this:

STR: 663
ACC: 353
CRT: 584
DET: 408
SS: 411
Weighting: 1043.617
DPS: 578.63133
Raid STR: 593.35988
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PAAG

Sadly, if you've invested into those boots already, then... :( The earrings are so good for us DRGs all because of the Accuracy on it.

The only way to use both the boots and crafted earrings would be to change the melds on your gloves to 9 ACC/ 25 CRT/ 18 DET/ 25 SS. You'd then switch out to using 9 ACC/18CRT/13DET/18SS Earring melds.

Unless you go for 2 i110 accessories? 9ACC/18CRT/13DET/18SS basically on both Ring and Earring.

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ya that set seems to be pretty good for cost.

I'll meld that when I actually get a spear `-` maybe in another 2 months and no helm+gloves.

I haven't actually remelded anything but the belt because I have too much accuracy with the augmented spear.

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

ya that set seems to be pretty good for cost.
(...)

I haven't actually remelded anything but the belt because I have too much accuracy with the augmented spear.

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THAT ACCURACY!

You could cut the cost even more and remove the crafted gloves. Those gloves will be a bombshell as well.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

You could cut the cost even more and remove the crafted gloves. Those gloves will be a bombshell as well.

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wouldnt that leave us with 531 accuracy if we get the dreadwyrm

Dreadwyrms have 11 more Acc :P So Dreadwyrm Gloves + 9acc/18crt/13det/18ss earrings

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PAF8

EDIT: Next week I'm gunna start getting the new topic done. If you have any tips/advice that should be in the front page that currently isn't, tell me and I'll include it. I'm gunna go over all of the maths on the OP as well and update it.

Is anyone else having an issue with Ariyala where it's telling them to use two Augmented Ironworks rings? I'd like to have an easy way to determine what the best set I can wear is, but that site has been doing this for months for me, so I want to see if anyone else is having this problem as well.

https://mega.co.nz/#!Yw9jHIqD!HIphhv...lP7k1MUAQp_WMQ

I hate ariyala sometimes. Use my spreadsheet instead. It has the best "slots" for equipment already done. Under the "Enabled" column, put 0/1's for gear that you want to test, BiS for. Select the Food/Accuracy requirements in the Drop Down box at the top.

Then go to "Data -> Solver -> Solve".

You might need to enable the Solver Add-in first in excel if you haven't already done so.

This spreadsheet is how I get crafted BiS combinations done so fast haha. It's beautiful.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

EDIT: Next week I'm gunna start getting the new topic done. If you have any tips/advice that should be in the front page that currently isn't, tell me and I'll include it. I'm gunna go over all of the maths on the OP as well and update it.

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I'd like a note on how incredibly good DRG is in dungeons. A number of DRGs I've encountered in DF have clearly read the OP and seem to understand the single-target rotation very well, but then they don't quite understand how to make the most of it on multiple targets. (the short version: Against two long-lived mobs, generally best to put DoTs on #2 while throwing everything else at #1. Against three or more mobs, use AoE unless TP is getting low and it doesn't look like you'll make it to Invigorate. You may not be able to AoE every pull, and that's okay; AoE every other pull is still better than sitting on all that TP.)

The statement "you cannot use more than one off-GCD ability in between two main abilities without sacrificing dps" needs revision. It's long been confirmed that oGCDs that aren't jumps or items are short enough to allow two, especially with DRG GCDs being as slow as they are. And in an AoE rotation you may as well use Life Surge on Dragonfire Dive since you'll run low on TP anyway.

Some questions that may or may not go well in a new guide:

"In the event of a mistake or disconnect, should I ever interrupt a combo to get buffs/rotational alignment back or avoid clipping Chaos Thrust?"
Never start the wrong combo... but always finish it! (any active combo bonus is always the hardest-hitting GCD available either immediately or within 2 GCDs)

"What is the deal with DRG and Limit Break?"
Melee Limit Break is very powerful against a single target. Bosses tend to be the most annoying single targets, and most parties would rather remove this roadblock than use a caster Limit Break on trash (even though it technically does more damage if there is more than one target, people don't usually have problems with clearing trash); thus, if a melee DPS is present, it is generally expected that that player will use the party's Limit Break.

And whereas monks and ninja have a groove that is somewhat uncomfortable to fit the long cast time into, the ways a dragoon can continue the rotation aren't terribly far off from optimal. So it'll be all yours in most instances you go into as a DRG, with very few exceptions.

"Should I hold out for a higher level of Limit Break, or use the one we have right now?"
You usually have to eyeball it and know the fight/dungeon well to say for sure. You don't generally want to hold on to it, because it depletes the gauge entirely; and the sooner you use it, the sooner it starts recharging. But sometimes there's a DPS check or a mechanic it will help you skip or push through more easily. In those cases, you'll want to save it for that. You'll also not want to use it at any time that gets you killed.

At any rate, most bosses except the toughest ones will only last long enough to charge it once, maybe twice. If you're not familiar with a boss, you can usually use its HP as a way of judging whether you'll make it to LB2/3.

Avoid using LB as a finisher unless that's the only safe time you could find; that's a waste of its full damage potential.

"What is the optimal time to LB3 if I want my personal DPS to look really cool?"
Replacing a Full Thrust combo, with all your cooldowns unavailable, so that HT/Disembowel/CT/Phlebotomize stay up. Mechanics always take priority, but it's a good thing to know, yes?

Perhaps one day I can follow OP's example and show the math behind these, but at least some of these questions should be on a DRG's mind.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Well, if you did go for that max crafted meld set I posted a few weeks ago, then you'd want this:

STR: 663
ACC: 353
CRT: 584
DET: 408
SS: 411
Weighting: 1043.617
DPS: 578.63133
Raid STR: 593.35988
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PAAG

Sadly, if you've invested into those boots already, then... :( The earrings are so good for us DRGs all because of the Accuracy on it.

The only way to use both the boots and crafted earrings would be to change the melds on your gloves to 9 ACC/ 25 CRT/ 18 DET/ 25 SS. You'd then switch out to using 9 ACC/18CRT/13DET/18SS Earring melds.

Unless you go for 2 i110 accessories? 9ACC/18CRT/13DET/18SS basically on both Ring and Earring.

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So we're going with this set, due to being mostly cost effective?

That's the most cost effective set, indeed. We're looking at around 4 DPS more over the non-crafted BiS for way under 10m (includes all crafts). Anymore gains and we have to fork 20m+. That being said, if the Zodiac Weapons are upgraded to i135, these may change. +Accuracy from Zodiac Weapon might change a few things... But if anything, the gains will be in additional Skillspeed so I wouldn't worry about it.

And sunny, I'll definitely add those questions into the OP, thanks.

http://puu.sh/eTYWT/9be2e77c72.jpg

my fucking life

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

my fucking life

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That. . .that hurts, and I'm not even in FCOB :(

LOL.

Yeah, everyone who doesn't even main drg, has the stuff that people who do main it, don't.

See, what you guys should do is replicate the Lucrezia experiment. That 3 DRG run was an attempt to stop spear drops, but it only ended up causing another....

dread daggers for my alt instead of spear

rip

Dreadwyrm Bow, this week. Spear yet eludes me.

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When we do finally raise the level cap in the future, Skill Speed will play an even bigger role there.

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http://www.novacrystallis.com/2014/0...naoki-yoshida/

Found this. lolwhat. Are you mad? Are they seriously going to consider making me TP drained within the first minute of the fight?

Let's get this right. If we assume the stat differences for every 10 levels are similar, difference of SS between level 40-50 is 97. So, we can assume to have a 450SS base for 3.0... GDC of 2.396.

We can expect, when geared, to have a GDC of 2.2-2.1, nearly that of the current MNK/NIN. Fuarrk.

So if they actually make it "more important".... ugh

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Let's get this right. If we assume the stat differences for every 10 levels are similar, difference of SS between level 40-50 is 97. So, we can assume to have a 450SS base for 3.0... GDC of 2.396.

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Well, at base SS of ~446, you should expect to still have a GCD of 2.50 seconds. At that point we'll have to determine how much SS goes into reducing your GCD by .01 all over again, as all the math will be different.

I hope that is the case. I'd absolutely hate it if the level 60 stats to actually affected SS...

Finally downed Phoenix last night, with a little bit of luck we might start training T13 at last. Any tips for the first two phases I should probably know before getting slaughtered?

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

Finally downed Phoenix last night, with a little bit of luck we might start training T13 at last. Any tips for the first two phases I should probably know before getting slaughtered?

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The initial burst is tricky, depending on how your tanks pull, the first Jump can land you right inside the Megaflare red pool, so be carefull. With some tries you'll get used and find the optimal burst.

Also, usually my 2nd (or 3rd? o.O) Blood for Blood come out of CD just before the second Earth Shatter Mark. So don't use it untill someone is marked or, in case you get the mark, do the mechanics before using it.

Our Paladin casts Cover on me whenever I get that mark (except if I get first and second, Cover will be on CD) so the shatter don't leave the pool, and allow you to continue atacking the boss. If you don't get the first mark and for the second your PLD has Cover up, just pop your CDs normaly. For the rest, just read that guides.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Found this. lolwhat. Are you mad? Are they seriously going to consider making me TP drained within the first minute of the fight?

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I think Yoshi-P is planning to change how SS works due to the complaints about how imbalanced it is, rather than just giving us more of it in its current state.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

I think Yoshi-P is planning to change how SS works due to the complaints about how imbalanced it is, rather than just giving us more of it in its current state.

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This is too good to me true.

Hey guys, now that Carbon Twines are available outside of Final Coil (and WoD is here), are the upgraded Poetics gloves a better choice than the Astrum ones? This is my gear currently. I don't need any additional accuracy for now, so I'm only really interested in gloves that would improve my damage.

Any viable pieces? Or am I better waiting until I get the Dreadwyrm ones from Final Coil?

the upgraded poetics gloves would definitely be better, yes. the current drg bis non-crafted uses all leftside poetics except the belt, so it'd fit well into that if you want to go for that build vs crafted builds with higher weights

the belt/necklace are probably the worst poetic items for dragoon, but they're still better than 110 soldiery at 120 likely, 130 definitely.

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Originally Posted by BristolRuss

Hey guys, now that Carbon Twines are available outside of Final Coil (and WoD is here), are the upgraded Poetics gloves a better choice than the Astrum ones? This is my gear currently. I don't need any additional accuracy for now, so I'm only really interested in gloves that would improve my damage.

Any viable pieces? Or am I better waiting until I get the Dreadwyrm ones from Final Coil?

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I would say it depends on if your having problems with dps in T10 and 11. At your current gear level you should be good enough to do T10 and T11 easily. The gloves would be a major boost especially if you upgrade it with a twine. You would be getting an extra 7 strength. The problem you will run into is accuracy cap for T12 and T13 in the future which the Dreadwyrm gloves will help you reach. I would personally say hold out till you get the gloves from T10.

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

the current drg bis non-crafted uses all leftside poetics except the belt.

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As far as I know, head, gloves and belt are from coil. Where's that 410DET set that Dervy posted?

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Originally Posted by Dunncan

As far as I know, head, gloves and belt are from coil. Where's that 410DET set that Dervy posted?

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I dont know about crafted BiS, but as far as coil and Dreadwyrm go you want dreadwyrm helm, gloves, belt, neck, and ring. All the rest is poetics.

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Originally Posted by Dunncan

As far as I know, head, gloves and belt are from coil. Where's that 410DET set that Dervy posted?

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http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/O7H5 is the 410 det, 0 skillspeed build
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PD79 is the bis with current weights, having 2.019 more str weighted (from skillspeed, granted)

i'll still go for the 410 det build though, since i already have all the leftside dreadwyrm pieces minus the spear.

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PD79 is the bis with current weights, having 2.019 more str weighted (from skillspeed, granted)

i'll still go for the 410 det build though, since i already have all the leftside dreadwyrm pieces

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Don't know if someone is really taking seriously that "BiS".

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Originally Posted by Sergeant

I dont know about crafted BiS, but as far as coil and Dreadwyrm go you want dreadwyrm helm, gloves, belt, neck, and ring. All the rest is poetics.

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Only talking about Left Side.

Also. Ive never posted in the forums before. Hello Fellow Dragoons. Nice to meet you all. I know I will learn a lot from all of you

471 pages, 4000 post. Totally not gonna read all that LOL so I shall post my question.

I am currently playing a DRG as a Sub-main and just wondering what is a good optimal rotation for Trash pulls in dungeons. The rotation the OP posted, from what I've understood is for bosses or single target in general but not for trash pulls at the size of 3. At 4+ mobs I know i should just AoE.

So far I've been told to:
1) Phlebotemize everything and 1-2-3 main target
2) Heavy thrust and phlebot target 1, Chaos Thrust Combo on target 2 and 1-2-3 target 3 until target 3 dies.
3) Treat it all just like a single target and do Chaos Thrust Combo and Full thrust combo until dead and move onto next target (issue with this one is by the time Chaos thrust goes off, target is almost dead and wont get a full, Full thrust combo in)

Thanks

Thanks for the help guys. There are other pieces of left side gear I will upgrade first, but it's good to know the gloves will be an upgrade when I get to them.

Edit: Unless of course I get the Dreadwyrm gloves before then!

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Originally Posted by Dunncan

Don't know if someone is really taking seriously that "BiS".

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still bis in numbers, despite skillspeed being 5.742 str worth of weight, having 370 does let you get an extra hit in during BfB (which is unaccounted for in testing afaik and a sizeable dps increase imo). if there were a 4* version of black truffle risotto and if we could turn that 5 excess accuracy into any other stat, the former set would be better, but those things aren't possible right now.

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

still bis in numbers, despite skillspeed being 5.742 str worth of weight, having 370 does let you get an extra hit in during BfB (which is unaccounted for in testing afaik and a sizeable dps increase imo). if there were a 4* version of black truffle risotto and if we could turn that 5 excess accuracy into any other stat, the former set would be better, but those things aren't possible right now.

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Since the last tests Dervy was running, where the more weight gear were not necessarily the most DPS, I'm very cautious about this minor SS increases. But it's a personal matter. I don't feel confortable with so many poetics peaces either. Just don't looks like "right".

But I would go for it if I had that bad lucky with FCoB drops, for sure.