#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

I'm probably not doing end game in dawntrail at any rate because of the game just not being that fun. Too many repetitive tasks or difficult tasks that have no real substance to them and are intentionally gated or time consuming combined with jobs that don't even have any unique quests or storylines to them post Stormblood.

I worry expanding healer DPS will actually result in healers bowing out of content due to the added complexity; once healers are doing half the damage due to low damage for healing; people are going to get it twisted and so nervous healers just won't show up...or worse end up dead more often as they juggle healing with more complex damage while trying to follow mechanics. Its like adding more survivability to DPS or more things to do; one of the reasons I suspect Eye of the Dragon got changed is because so few dragoons were probably using it effectively; instead simply buffing themselves; while those that did improved raid performance dramatically.

Another possiblity is to create healers as having a "damage dealing" option and historically I've seen what happens when you do that - see Cleric stance or the term "Smizzard"

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Actually, I've been looking at tanks and DPS another way recently, specifically how I know some who are pro-healer strike who plan on deliberately ignoring mechanics/eating as much damage as possible come Dawntrail to give the anti-strike "thanks for the instant queue" healers a hard time, lol. I mean, it's "no big deal" right? There's "nothing to complain about" right? (Alternately, you have the anti-strike tanks and DPS who want to give any unfortunate queuing pro-strikers "something engaging to do, just like you whined about".)

As well, there's also pro-strike healers who are planning on continuing to queue, but are going to do exactly what the devs demand of them: Be green DPS only, refusing to toss out a single heal because tank and DPS self-sustain is "working as intended" and if a wipe happens then "ask for more self-heals then, at least they listen to *you*".

So yeah, we've reached the point already where a unknown quantity of people are going to grief the current system because it might have better results than sitting out and pouting because as others have pointed out, that hasn't worked even once yet. Now turning the new expansions duties into a total clown fiesta... well, who knows what that could result in. Peaceful protest may just not be enough this time.

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This whole situation could have been prevented if SE listened to the healer community.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

I'm probably not doing end game in dawntrail at any rate because of the game just not being that fun. Too many repetitive tasks or difficult tasks that have no real substance to them and are intentionally gated or time consuming combined with jobs that don't even have any unique quests or storylines to them post Stormblood.

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Job quests where one of my fav points of this game.

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Originally Posted by Ayan_Calvesse

I worry expanding healer DPS will actually result in healers bowing out of content due to the added complexity; once healers are doing half the damage due to low damage for healing; people are going to get it twisted and so nervous healers just won't show up...or worse end up dead more often as they juggle healing with more complex damage while trying to follow mechanics. Its like adding more survivability to DPS or more things to do; one of the reasons I suspect Eye of the Dragon got changed is because so few dragoons were probably using it effectively; instead simply buffing themselves; while those that did improved raid performance dramatically.

Another possiblity is to create healers as having a "damage dealing" option and historically I've seen what happens when you do that - see Cleric stance or the term "Smizzard"

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I mean, the newer healers don't hit their damage buttons as it is. Whats the difference between not using 2 buttons and not using 4 buttons.

Edit: Also going after Blizzard here is questionable, considering healing in that game is pretty good, and there are two healers that actually heal by doing damage (not the fake kind like sage)

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

https://i.imgur.com/wsvvnAU.jpg

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Thanks for posting this.

Do I think healers need improvement? Yes
Will I be striking? No

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Actually, I've been looking at tanks and DPS another way recently, specifically how I know some who are pro-healer strike who plan on deliberately ignoring mechanics/eating as much damage as possible come Dawntrail to give the anti-strike "thanks for the instant queue" healers a hard time, lol. I mean, it's "no big deal" right? There's "nothing to complain about" right? (Alternately, you have the anti-strike tanks and DPS who want to give any unfortunate queuing pro-strikers "something engaging to do, just like you whined about".)

As well, there's also pro-strike healers who are planning on continuing to queue, but are going to do exactly what the devs demand of them: Be green DPS only, refusing to toss out a single heal because tank and DPS self-sustain is "working as intended" and if a wipe happens then "ask for more self-heals then, at least they listen to *you*".

So yeah, we've reached the point already where a unknown quantity of people are going to grief the current system because it might have better results than sitting out and pouting because as others have pointed out, that hasn't worked even once yet. Now turning the new expansions duties into a total clown fiesta... well, who knows what that could result in. Peaceful protest may just not be enough this time.

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I fail to see how either of those are any different than how DF is now, honestly. I don't think their griefing is going to have nearly the same effect, plus it's targeting and blaming the wrong people. They're unhappy with SE, but feel compelled to punish their fellow players. Incredibly mature and very likely to get any valid points completely ignored.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I fail to see how either of those are any different than how DF is now, honestly. I don't think their griefing is going to have nearly the same effect, plus it's targeting and blaming the wrong people. They're unhappy with SE, but feel compelled to punish their fellow players. Incredibly mature and very likely to get any valid points completely ignored.

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So people aren't allowed to quit a role if they don't enjoy it? Neat

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Originally Posted by Ayan_Calvesse

I worry expanding healer DPS will actually result in healers bowing out of content due to the added complexity; once healers are doing half the damage due to low damage for healing; people are going to get it twisted and so nervous healers just won't show up...or worse end up dead more often as they juggle healing with more complex damage while trying to follow mechanics. Its like adding more survivability to DPS or more things to do; one of the reasons I suspect Eye of the Dragon got changed is because so few dragoons were probably using it effectively; instead simply buffing themselves; while those that did improved raid performance dramatically.

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Am I misunderstanding or are you saying devs would rather delete systems from the game rather than allowing them exist simply because some players are worse or otherwise less interested than others?

Is that also why BLM nonstandard was ruined? Was some raider madge?

I look forward to doing dt as a bard! Kind of sad dragoon won't have as many jumps- kind of goes against the whole theme of the job. I'll unfortunately be putting down astrologian for df. However, I might level ast with trusts (I'll need to watch guides for content beforehand because wiping in trusts is very annoying). It's pretty sad because I love playing support and being a team player. dps and tank just don't fulfill that for me. playing dps feels far removed in terms of interractions. I'm just attacking and pressing buff buttons on cooldown. well... at least I get fun gameplay with bard.

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Originally Posted by Ayan_Calvesse

I worry expanding healer DPS will actually result in healers bowing out of content due to the added complexity; once healers are doing half the damage due to low damage for healing; people are going to get it twisted and so nervous healers just won't show up...or worse end up dead more often as they juggle healing with more complex damage while trying to follow mechanics.

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I'm so tired of my role (well, soon to be former) being gatekept and held back by genuinely awful players. Any time we want more complexity it's always the same response of ''but think about the bottom 10% who would struggle if it was made harder''.

Because those types of players weren't already struggling to begin with? How low are we making the bar to entry for this game? The average healer player today is awful. I can queue into a savage pf and my WHM co-healer will snort medica 2 like crack cocaine and somehow struggle to do DPS when it is. literally. one. button.

If people are new to healing and are still grasping the ropes, fine, I don't hate those types of players. But the types who have months upon months of play time and still somehow play something like Sage and just sit there in an expert roulette spamming diagnosis on me, they are simply incompetent and lowering the bar more and more to people who refuse to get better is not the solution.

Yet it's what the developers have done for years - cater to those type of players. Just look at the last morsel of difficulty in the healer role - AST (yes, I will be forever bitter). It's been reworked going into DT to be more simplified and streamlined with the other healers. Because apparently having a singular healer which had genuine difficulty and optimisation baked into its kit if you wanted to access it, was too much for the bottom of the barrel type of player. We must make the card system brainless and scripted, because having RNG to slightly change the rotation each time was apparently too difficult. We must give them 4 more single target healing buttons + 2 mits going into DT, because apparently having 5 of those in EW was too little.

Ranting aside - the solution to this is so simple. Literally design the healers to encompass different levels of difficulty and play styles. Have one healer (probably WHM) stay as it is right now, a one button DPS rotation, so people who want that get to keep it. Then create (or do not rework) the other healers into something more akin to AST where there's genuine difficulty and optimisation to think of. Or more into what the healers used to be when they had several DoTs or other nuanced abilities to think about. SGE really should have been some brainy whacky-ass DPS rotation style of healer, and not this ''healer who heals by doing DPS, but the DPS is just 1111111211111'' job.

i'm with ya fellows, i too wish my dps had more than a one button healing and mitigation rotation, wheres my tbn and shake it off on my sam, and my kardia, and i dont even have a medica 2, its just not fair :(

stay strong brothers.

It's so silly seeing try-hards trying to make the gameplay harder. Go play Elden Ring DLC instead if you want some challenge. Or find some hardcore Korean MMO.
I simply cannot see why the devs would ever listen to you all. You're not the core of the universe just because you clear Ultimate and Savage content. Not everyone enjoys having to watch over all 4 corners of their 21:9 monitor just because someone wanted to have some more 'diversity' and 'engaging gameplay'. Not everyone have the time to train/play for 6h a day. Don't be selfish a-holes.

This thread reminds me too much of SJW of the internet where everyone becomes a racists if their skin color is not 'melanin positive'. But in this case, as soon as someone does not agree with the manifesto, becomes an enemy and a traitor to whole FFXIV community...

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Originally Posted by Ayan_Calvesse

I worry expanding healer DPS will actually result in healers bowing out of content due to the added complexity; once healers are doing half the damage due to low damage for healing; people are going to get it twisted and so nervous healers just won't show up...or worse end up dead more often as they juggle healing with more complex damage while trying to follow mechanics. Its like adding more survivability to DPS or more things to do; one of the reasons I suspect Eye of the Dragon got changed is because so few dragoons were probably using it effectively; instead simply buffing themselves; while those that did improved raid performance dramatically.

Another possiblity is to create healers as having a "damage dealing" option and historically I've seen what happens when you do that - see Cleric stance or the term "Smizzard"

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Adding more DPS tools, or simply making existing attacks usable more frequently can actually make healer DPS easier rather than harder. One of the consequences of not adding new attacks is that in order for healer potencies to stay current with content, they've upgraded and increased the potency of our filler attacks every single explansion, but this has a negative effect on healers who don't like to DPS because it adds more and more pressure on the healer to maintain a high DPS uptime, because every individual cast of Glare or Broil or whatever becomes more and more important. Let me show you with numbers how this looks.

Right now, let's say you use all you're maximizing the use of your other DPS tools: Dia, Assize, PoM, Glare IV, and Afflatus Misery. Right now, that makes up only 41.9% of your total possible DPS. The other 58.1% comes from maximizing Glare III uptime, which means no room for healing or moving. Every time you do, you lose a piece of that 58.1%.

But let's say we change PoM to a 60 second cooldown, and make it so that every tic of Dia has a 15% chance to proc a use of Glare IV outside PoM windows. Doing this increases the amount of Glare IVs we cast from 1.5 per minute to an average of 6 per minute, and that extra damage could be taken away from Glare III. We could reduce Glare III down to 260 potency with these changes, and White Mage's potency output will stay in roughly the same spot. But look at what this does to your numbers:

Glare III goes from being as much at 58.1% of your possible damage to only 36.1%. Meanwhile, if you can maintain the attacks you were already using, and simply hit Glare IV whenever it lights up, that makes up 64% of your total damage. That's over a 20% flat incease to the damage you can do before you even need to worry about spamming Glare III and maxing DPS uptime. Not only does White Mage's DPS gameplay more dynamic and less monotonous, but it allows casual healers to contribute a lot more damage with a lot less effort.

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Originally Posted by Emilia-

This thread reminds me too much of...

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https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C4...bKyLN5c4q55H0s

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Originally Posted by Emilia-

It's so silly seeing try-hards trying to make the gameplay harder. Go play Elden Ring DLC instead if you want some challenge. Or find some hardcore Korean MMO.
I simply cannot see why the devs would ever listen to you all. You're not the core of the universe just because you clear Ultimate and Savage content. Not everyone enjoys having to watch over all 4 corners of their 21:9 monitor just because someone wanted to have some more 'diversity' and 'engaging gameplay'. Not everyone have the time to train/play for 6h a day. Don't be selfish a-holes.

This thread reminds me too much of SJW of the internet where everyone becomes a racists if their skin color is not 'melanin positive'. But in this case, as soon as someone does not agree with the manifesto, becomes an enemy and a traitor to whole FFXIV community...

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You guys really need to decide if the healers pointing out the problems with the role are clueless casuals who should have no say because they don't raid, or hardcore raiders who should have no say because they aren't the target audience of the majority of the game.

Then again, using the term "SJW" unironically in the year 2024 says a lot, so...

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Originally Posted by BunnyQueen

This whole situation could have been prevented if SE listened to the healer community.

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Note: The "healer community" on the forums is not representative of the immensely larger actual "healer community" in the game. SE is listening to the huge playerbase, not the minuscule few in comparison that are the "loudest" voices.

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Am I misunderstanding or are you saying devs would rather delete systems from the game rather than allowing them exist simply because some players are worse or otherwise less interested than others?

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It sounds like the person you're replying to is pointing out why healing has been simplified over the years, and thus why it wouldn't make sense to go back the other way. It would likely damage the role by turning far more people off than the few it would attract.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Note: The "healer community" on the forums is not representative of the immensely larger actual "healer community" in the game. SE is listening to the huge playerbase, not the minuscule few in comparison that are the "loudest" voices.



It sounds like the person you're replying to is pointing out why healing has been simplified over the years, and thus why it wouldn't make sense to go back the other way. It would likely damage the role by turning far more people off than the few it would attract.

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They absolutely aren't because the majority of the playerbase doesn't care enough to provide any type of feedback.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Note: The "healer community" on the forums is not representative of the immensely larger actual "healer community" in the game. SE is listening to the huge playerbase, not the minuscule few in comparison that are the "loudest" voices.



It sounds like the person you're replying to is pointing out why healing has been simplified over the years, and thus why it wouldn't make sense to go back the other way. It would likely damage the role by turning far more people off than the few it would attract.

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Please, show me the proof that the majority of players love the current healer design. As for my own proof that it is the opposite, I offer the fact that this thread is getting an absolutely enormous amount of traction even now.

I've seen almost nobody who actually talks about the state of healers have anything positive say about it, so I feel like that's a better indicator of how this vaunted "majority" feels.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

They're unhappy with SE, but feel compelled to punish their fellow players. Incredibly mature and very likely to get any valid points completely ignored.

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So, by you, switching job is actually punishing other players ?

In other word, you just said that anyone who's not playing healer is punishing the community.

What kind of logic is that ? But you're a main healer right ?

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I fail to see how either of those are any different than how DF is now, honestly. I don't think their griefing is going to have nearly the same effect, plus it's targeting and blaming the wrong people. They're unhappy with SE, but feel compelled to punish their fellow players. Incredibly mature and very likely to get any valid points completely ignored.

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The strikers aren't punishing fellow players.

They're doing what their fellow players have been doing - choosing to play a job they find fun. Healing isn't fun for them anymore so they're not going to play a healer.

There are still other healer mains like me that do find healing generally fun and we'll be sticking with it. There will be other players that don't generally main healer but they don't mind healing either. If queue times get long enough, some of them will likely switch to healer.

Remember that the attitude you display in your post is why some players refuse to play healer already. It's got nothing to do with healing design and everything to do with players who act like they're owed something by other players. We're not your servants. We're not employees of SE. We're fellow players allowed to choose what job we want to play just as you choose.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I fail to see how either of those are any different than how DF is now, honestly. I don't think their griefing is going to have nearly the same effect, plus it's targeting and blaming the wrong people. They're unhappy with SE, but feel compelled to punish their fellow players. Incredibly mature and very likely to get any valid points completely ignored.

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my apologies but you are misreading the actual intent or simply spreading misinformation. no one is planning on griefing by being only "green dps" we are not joining DF as healers. why cant we just enjoy DPS like everyone else instead of playing our healer main? so making a personal choice NOT to queue as a healer main but as one of the new classes is now considered... "griefing"? and we are punishing our fellow players by playing new jobs?

good to know. so you will be playing healer then? since your fellow players need you. good to hear. have fun in DawnTrail ^^

Many directions I thought the strike discourse would go

“You are griefing by playing PCT in DT if you used to be a healer main” is not one of them

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Originally Posted by Ayan_Calvesse

I worry expanding healer DPS will actually result in healers bowing out of content due to the added complexity; once healers are doing half the damage due to low damage for healing; people are going to get it twisted and so nervous healers just won't show up...or worse end up dead more often as they juggle healing with more complex damage while trying to follow mechanics.

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This is Sylphie Fallacy #28: "If you make Healing harder, it will cause unskilled low-effort players to quit. Doesn't that make you feel guilty?"

Based on your join date, this is also Sylphie Fallacy #14: "I began playing in Endwalker, and I like Healers how they are. I don't want anything to change."

Those of us who played healers back in ARR/HW remember a time when healers didn't have eleventy free oGCD healing tools neatly synchronized to scripted raidwides and 'busters, when Benediction had a five-minute cooldown, when healers had more DoTs to juggle and had to do the Cleric Stance Dance for those DoTs to hit harder than a wet noodle, when boss auto-attacks could still crit and tanks didn't have the ungodly amounts of self-sustain they currently have, when tanks were squishier because tank stance reduced incoming damage at the cost of reducing outgoing damage, causing many tanks to run with their stance off in order to deal more damage. And during that time, newbies picked up and mastered healing just fine, content got cleared, and there was no mass exodus of lil' babby healers just because they had to press more than one button for DPS.

Also, your argument can equally be applied to the tank role. So why is it okay for tanks to have DPS rotations but not healers? Why must all four healer jobs be lobotomized for the short-bus crowd, while tank and DPS jobs are allowed to have fun? Again, neither you nor anybody else making this asinine argument have ever given an answer that wasn't just a restatement of, "Healers are all glue-huffing monkeys."

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I fail to see how either of those are any different than how DF is now, honestly. I don't think their griefing is going to have nearly the same effect, plus it's targeting and blaming the wrong people. They're unhappy with SE, but feel compelled to punish their fellow players. Incredibly mature and very likely to get any valid points completely ignored.

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As stated before...

Non-healers: "If you want to DPS, play a DPS."

Healers: "Okay."

Non-healers: "No, not like that!"

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Many directions I thought the strike discourse would go

“You are griefing by playing PCT in DT if you used to be a healer main” is not one of them

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''please be quiet and enjoy your lobotomy dps rotation whilst I get to have fun'' - the average dps main when healers ask for more

''if you don't like it, just play something el- wait I didn't mean it, PLEASE, what about my queues!? You're being so selfish!'' - the average non-healer player when we actually take that advice

There's two different accusations of griefing which has really poisoned the discourse.

A) We're intentionally trying to obstruct queues by not playing healers, "just do duty support etc." We're really just not playing a job that isn't fun anymore and bringing attention to why exactly it isn't fun anymore.

B) We're queueing as a healer but not doing our job intentionally to... what, own the tank? Nobody that's part of the strike is doing this
We're not queueing at all, that's our only purpose anymore just making a queue pop.

To be fair Stance Dancing was terrible. Same with skill books and the need for said book with SMN and SCH, having to constantly switch was dreadful. Those I don't mind being gone.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Note: The "healer community" on the forums is not representative of the immensely larger actual "healer community" in the game. SE is listening to the huge playerbase, not the minuscule few in comparison that are the "loudest" voices.

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https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...987&height=687

https://i.ibb.co/6ngVScN/Untitled.png

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Originally Posted by Emilia-

It's so silly seeing try-hards trying to make the gameplay harder. Go play Elden Ring DLC instead if you want some challenge. Or find some hardcore Korean MMO.
I simply cannot see why the devs would ever listen to you all. You're not the core of the universe just because you clear Ultimate and Savage content. Not everyone enjoys having to watch over all 4 corners of their 21:9 monitor just because someone wanted to have some more 'diversity' and 'engaging gameplay'. Not everyone have the time to train/play for 6h a day. Don't be selfish a-holes.

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I don't do Savages or Ultimates, I am not a try-hard, and I want healers to be better and actually needed for their role: healing.

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

https://i.ibb.co/6ngVScN/Untitled.png

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to be fair, they got it posted to gamer news sites got it talked about by streamers the fact of it is create negative publicity on the devs and 14s healer designs is more effective than just current community. doesnt show now but if it keeps spreading like that, it will more effective even if only 5 healers in the game actrually strike.


This is why i hate groups and society in general thinking a large number means anything but it doesnt, what matters is finding a weak point striking it quick and effectively allowing the tools to spread... and Consinder how se put not one but 2 mounts that belong in a raid drop I think they will start to care more even if the majoirty of the community doesnt care, because harming their reputation by allowing it to spread is a usefull tool.

Numbers mean nothing a single person can destory an army if they are smart enough.


Humans believe that banding together and going by majority means anything but it doesnt matter how many humans are within a village if their water supply is poisoned by a single inviduale same logic applys here it doesnt matter if a million or two million dont care or laugh about it, creating a negative rep towards the devs on healer design can be effective

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

So people aren't allowed to quit a role if they don't enjoy it? Neat

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Did you read what was quoted? People aren't just talking about quitting a role. They're talking about ignoring mechanics and swimming in AoEs to grief people still playing healers. Or going in as the role and not healing. It has nothing to do with people not being allowed to quit a role they don't enjoy. Being unhappy with a role is NOT a blank check to grief others.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Did you read what was quoted? People aren't just talking about quitting a role. They're talking about ignoring mechanics and swimming in AoEs to grief people still playing healers. Or going in as the role and not healing. It has nothing to do with people not being allowed to quit a role they don't enjoy. Being unhappy with a role is NOT a blank check to grief others.

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Which nobody is doing

Some people randomly came in having no idea what we were doing, said that with no evidence then people jumped on that as if that’s what we were doing

Funny enough, the wouldn't need to do a whole lot to fix healers.

Bozja and Eureka are littered with abilities that have extensive testing in their effects and combinations. As the code already exists in game, it wouldn't take much, if anything, to port them to regular abilities for use by various classes. No need to create from whole cloth.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

my apologies but you are misreading the actual intent or simply spreading misinformation. no one is planning on griefing by being only "green dps" we are not joining DF as healers. why cant we just enjoy DPS like everyone else instead of playing our healer main? so making a personal choice NOT to queue as a healer main but as one of the new classes is now considered... "griefing"? and we are punishing our fellow players by playing new jobs?

good to know. so you will be playing healer then? since your fellow players need you. good to hear. have fun in DawnTrail ^^

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Actually, I've been looking at tanks and DPS another way recently, specifically how I know some who are pro-healer strike who plan on deliberately ignoring mechanics/eating as much damage as possible come Dawntrail to give the anti-strike "thanks for the instant queue" healers a hard time, lol. I mean, it's "no big deal" right? There's "nothing to complain about" right? (Alternately, you have the anti-strike tanks and DPS who want to give any unfortunate queuing pro-strikers "something engaging to do, just like you whined about".)

As well, there's also pro-strike healers who are planning on continuing to queue, but are going to do exactly what the devs demand of them: Be green DPS only, refusing to toss out a single heal because tank and DPS self-sustain is "working as intended" and if a wipe happens then "ask for more self-heals then, at least they listen to *you*".

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My post was in response to this. Go accuse THEM of misinformation. If what they're saying is true, my original post still stands. It is the wrong thing to plan to punish others.

You do know that was ironic right

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

My post was in response to this. Go accuse THEM of misinformation. If what they're saying is true, my original post still stands. It is the wrong thing to plan to punish others.

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"Someone ELSE started the misinformation. The only I thing I did was spread it!"

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Which nobody is doing

Some people randomly came in having no idea what we were doing, said that with no evidence then people jumped on that as if that’s what we were doing

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To be fair the original post says that those participating aren't going to engage with the role at all. Yet there all kinds of people saying they're still going to heal for friends, or statics, or level their healers without Duty Finder. There doesn't seem to be any organized agreement on how those participating will do things. So how can any of you say that someone won't decide to do this?

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Originally Posted by Willemdarke

Coming from a healer who doesn't agree with the strike, because:
1. I've seen too many people advocating for changes (or full-on reworks) to how other jobs/roles play

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And?

Do you know what a power-creep is?