Dark Knight Megathread

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Why would anyone do that though?
TBN breaking is DPS neutral.
You're taking vuln stacks for no benefit to yourself, and it's potentially a DPS loss because your healers need to do more to patch you up.

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Most new mechs give damage down instead of vuln up anyways.

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Originally Posted by NightHour

No other tanks mitigation is tied to their DPS.

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WAR's self-healing certainly is, though, an that's going to matter more in terms of healer GCDs saved overall that mitigation.

More importantly, if no other tank were to have any defensive <-> offensive interactions anymore, wouldn't that be reason to add them back, rather than merely shallowing out its last vestige?

Having some actual interaction from the fight beyond just scheduled CDs as no more than defined counters to moments X, Y, and Z is good for gameplay, I would think. Why the hurry to nuke it?

You know, I wouldn't mind having DRK learning their 2nd AoE skill at a later level if both of these things happened:

• the cooldowns for Abyssal Drain and Salted Earth are reduced.
• The MP Cost for Flood/Edge of Shadow is reduced to 2500.

As for Darkside, I really don't like the mechanic as it is now. You really don't have to worry about the timer at all. I think if you decrease the max timer and the amount of time you gain for every Flood/Edge of Shadow skill used, I think it'd be a decent QoL change that will make the DRK look at the timer every now and then.

• Max Darkside timer is reduced from 60secs to 30secs.
• Reduce the amount of time you get from using Flood/Edge of Shadow from 30secs to 15secs.

Since we are talking about TBN, I already put my thoughts into this on another thread I made, but here it is again. Suggested Change for TBN:

• If TBN breaks, DRK will gain the trait Dark Rune
• Dark Rune reduces damage taken by 15% for a duration of 12secs
• Restores the DRK's HP with a Cure Potency of 500.
• Costs no MP.
• Cooldown increased from 15secs to 25secs.

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

On the one hand, HW era DRK was the most fun I've ever had with this game. I know that we can't go back to that for a variety of reasons (not going to lie, it was jank as hell then too, but for entirely different reasons), and as much as I deeply, deeply miss HW DRK, I do understand that the simplification of tanking kind of had to be done to make the entire game more playable. But I do think things went way too far in that regard, and I wouldn't mind dialing things back to a more refined version of the concept we had in HW.

Tanking is plenty accessible now, with so many simple jobs, it wouldn't hurt to have one with more complexity now. We can roll back that huge overadjustment a little bit, even just for one class.

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I don't mind simplification. It is possible to simplify video games for a casual audience and still please the hardcore crowd (look at Dragon Ball Fighters, Guilty Gear Strive, and Melty Blood Type Lumina for example). SE can probably find a middle ground to please everyone, but what frustrates me is that they don't even try with some jobs like DRK and the Healer Jobs.

I never played HW DRK, but I got bored of DRK's current iteration. And with Endwalker showing no major QoL improvements, I'm dropping the job for PLD.

Reducing Darkside timer would make it more difficult to manage, but not more interresting.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Why would anyone do that though?

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Why indeed does anyone play in a certain way.
why is there an entire section of this forum with posts called "Tales from Duty Finder?"

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

Why indeed does anyone play in a certain way.
why is there an entire section of this forum with posts called "Tales from Duty Finder?"

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So then it's just a run of the mill issue of people playing poorly, and not TBN mixing mitigation and DPS in a way that is "anti-tank" unless players execute it improperly.

I don't believe for this conversation we should hold a skill or an element of a job to the fire based on the way some may use it wrong.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

So then it's just a run of the mill issue of people playing poorly, and not TBN mixing mitigation and DPS in a way that is "anti-tank" unless players execute it improperly.

I don't believe for this conversation we should hold a skill or an element of a job to the fire based on the way some may use it wrong.

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SE sure does tho. Otherwise why was Shield Swipe nixxed from PLD's kit, other than "well uh it uh forces PLD into a main tank role, and having a damaging move tied to a mitigation is bad"
"We put Delirium and Inner Release on a 3-use charge system for ease of use because we've heard complaints that it's not intuitive to use." (ignores all of the Blood weapon complaints.)

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

SE sure does tho.

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Did they mention this in an interview somewhere?

In the interviews leading up to Stormblood, there was a lot of discussion on allowing tanks to be used equally well at MT and OT tasks. The BlueGartr forums are a good reference for these. That's presumably the main reason why Reprisal was made into a role action and Blood Price was gradually phased out. The principle has, of course, been applied fairly inconsistently across the board (see: Vengeance).

Shield Swipe's removal had more to do with the fact that the ability, along with the fact that Sheltron gave you MP, made Sheltron a mandatory gauge spender over Intervention. With block applying to magic damage as well, you didn't have to be actively tanking the boss to get procs (just like you could just as easily have used Blood Price to generate MP on AoEs in Heavensward). This is probably also the reason why TBN has tended to be either a slight dps loss or dps neutral since its introduction in Stormblood. It's strange, though, because they're not afraid to tie in bonus effects to short recast defensive moves on melee dps, like Third Eye and now Arcane Crest.

Basically, their development philosophy is all over the map when it comes to tanks.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Shield Swipe's removal had more to do with the fact that the ability, along with the fact that Sheltron gave you MP, made Sheltron a mandatory gauge spender over Intervention. With block applying to magic damage as well, you didn't have to be actively tanking the boss to get procs (just like you could just as easily have used Blood Price to generate MP on AoEs in Heavensward). This is probably also the reason why TBN has tended to be either a slight dps loss or dps neutral since its introduction in Stormblood. It's strange, though, because they're not afraid to tie in bonus effects to short recast defensive moves on melee dps, like Third Eye and now Arcane Crest.

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That's interesting. Thanks for the information.