The great streamer Asmongold is joining FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Controller

You're forgetting SB had the best version of monk by far. The TK monk. IT wasn't MY fav but tons of streamers loved it and so did a few players in the game. Monk compared to everything else has always been in a shit can, but SB monk was one of the better ones. Same with Ninja and Astro. They were the best compared to NOW. Give or take some things. I forgot about BRD to bbe honest.. but thats a point in my favor if I take that in.

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Contrary to popular belief, TK Monk was incredibly divisive. A lot of people absolutely hated it due to the sheer rigidness of the rotation. If you messed up even the slightest part, your damage instantly tanked with no recovery. What made it worse is there was no real reward. It still stood in the looming shadow of Dragoon and Ninja. So all the work meant nothing in the grand scheme of things. You also keep bringing up Ninja but its Shadowbringers rework is largely considered a success. There are some hold out opinions but overall Ninja is seen positive. Astro less so, especially by the non-raid community.

You shouldn't rely on streamers to determine opinions. MrHappy quitting Monk had nothing to do with the Shadowbringers version but rather he was fed up with the constantly changing the job only for it to suffer again. He didn't even like the TK version.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Most people prefer HW DRK over StB DRK, but ShB DRK is even less popular than either as far as I can tell.

People talked about salvaging StB DRK, they talk about starting over with ShB DRK.

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It isn't. Dark Arts spam Dark Knight was despised. Practically every consensus done vaults DRK higher throughout this expansion despite its rework being divisive. Most of Shadowbringers DRK dislike comes from Delirium being a lazy copy of IR and Blood Weapon no longer having a speed boost. But it's still preferred over Stormblood.

Heavensward Dark Knight though has been the runaway favourite for years. It baffles me why the devs simply won't go back to that foundation.

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

The question now is how long will this last? When WoW gets it's act together once more (and I've no doubt it will, there's too much money at stake for Activision Blizzard), will we just see a mass reversal exodus?
Hoping of course that many new players will be hooked by the story and stay with the game in the longer term. We'll see.

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I doubt they will ever get their act back together unless they get someone with even half the vision and care the XIV team has. The damage has still already been done, though, and people moving to other MMOs (not just to XIV) is a common story for awhile now.

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Originally Posted by Controller

You're forgetting SB had the best version of monk by far. The TK monk. IT wasn't MY fav but tons of streamers loved it and so did a few players in the game. Monk compared to everything else has always been in a shit can, but SB monk was one of the better ones. Same with Ninja and Astro. They were the best compared to NOW. Give or take some things. I forgot about BRD to bbe honest.. but thats a point in my favor if I take that in.

I just remembered what I kept seeing on the forums and youtube videos during HW and SB. Details asides I just wanted to say SB isn't as bad as people scream about. It feels like people forget how bad parts of HW were actually. I can't forget it because I was there and remembered EVERYONE complaining about the devs taking a VERY long vacation, the stupid choice your character throwing the eyes off the cliff, how lame the Warriors of Darkness were in the end. I don't care how they were redeemed in SB2 because they STILL were lackluster in HW.

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Eh, I think some people were just happy that they *actually got to use TK for once*.
I think that had way more to do with it, which is moreso like a bandaid to shitty game design with MNK which it has been suffering from since forever.

I've played MNK since ARR, and I think that on a whole MNK is the best now than it has ever been when it comes to it's core.
And yes I've seen and been through every iteration.
The issue is that it feels too repetitive imo which doesn't fit the theme and fantasy and I also wish we could get Howling Fist back and there's some pointless bloat like the fist stances.
They should just merge them together into one and/ or make it a passive.
I actually did like the concept of fist stance dancing ( including with Shoulder Tackle ) I just didn't like how it worked in effect it was just a turn on and forget still I wanted it to be an actual part of the rotation actively.

I think that in Endwalker we're going to get some kind of a mechanic to FINALLY '' complete '' MNK.
My worry is just that it's going to be too generic and just another timed mechanic where you just have this 30-60 sec cycle or something, I want MNK to be more dynamic and less rigid.
Way back they used to think of MNK as a '' combo master '' and I want them to use that as a framework, our burst phase is a good example of that I just want it to be less monotonous.
Make the actual rotation more dynamic and indicative of MNK's speed.

I think people had a right to be worried about Asmon at the start. I mean the dude is toxic at times with his wow streams. That is a fact. The ninja looting and how he acts even if it is just a persona. It is very much a wow thing. After all that is his community. That is what they like and edge him on to do it. After all he is putting on a show and part of that show is when he acts toxic.


What I don't like is not giving him a chance. Just because you act like that in one community does not mean you will in another. And Asmon did one good thing. He pulled out the worse parts of the community, and air it out so we can all stop ignoring them, and act like they don't exist. These basket cases we need to make sure players coming into the game know. They are an outcast of the community.


So my point is this. Should people be worried about him coming? Sure, how he acted before I can understand it. However, that does not mean we can't change based off the rules and how the community acts. People are very good at adapting. Overall more power to the guy. One thing FF14 community good at, is living through the sprouts joy of going through the story first time...drives this community.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

HW DRK was still the top the mountain. Managing MP, cooldowns, your DoT (I miss you Scourge...), your enmity combo and DPS combo (I miss having a 2nd combo...), and the absolute joy felt when you pulled it all off. SB DRK was a travesty that spat on all that was DRK, and I'm glad that evil monstrosity is dead.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

It isn't. Dark Arts spam Dark Knight was despised. Practically every consensus done vaults DRK higher throughout this expansion despite its rework being divisive. Most of Shadowbringers DRK dislike comes from Delirium being a lazy copy of IR and Blood Weapon no longer having a speed boost. But it's still preferred over Stormblood.

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Stormblood Dark Knight was better, and the Shadowbringers version being more popular in definitely not the impression I get. Like 50% of the tank forum has been complaints about Dark Knight for the past 2 years.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Stormblood Dark Knight was better, and the Shadowbringers version being more popular in definitely not the impression I get. Like 50% of the tank forum has been complaints about Dark Knight for the past 2 years.

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I actually liked Dark Arts spam, but I do remember people relentlessly hating on it.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Stormblood Dark Knight was better, and the Shadowbringers version being more popular in definitely not the impression I get. Like 50% of the tank forum has been complaints about Dark Knight for the past 2 years.

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A handful of drama queens on the tank forums does not make "the majority of the playerbase". Because let's be honest, people acting like divas and throwing hyperbole upon hyperbole regarding the state of DRK is very much a forum thing.

I enjoyed dark arts spam, that is all.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlha

A handful of drama queens on the tank forums does not make "the majority of the playerbase". Because let's be honest, people acting like divas and throwing hyperbole upon hyperbole regarding the state of DRK is very much a forum thing.

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It was just the main example because the forums is where we are at, I'm not getting any of sort of majorly different vibe on reddit, or in-game or on discord. ShB DRK is widely considered dumbed down from the StB version, which was considered dumbed down from the HW version.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

It was just the main example because the forums is where we are at, I'm not getting any of sort of majorly different vibe on reddit, or in-game or on discord. ShB DRK is widely considered dumbed down from the StB version, which was considered dumbed down from the HW version.

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Yet ironically this version of DRK is better. Because we went from Dark Arts being something you had to balance the risk/reward of with the MP degen and being used alongside actual tank cooldowns (it modified a few of them), to being something you almost spammed EVERY SINGLE ATTACK. It didn't help that our identity as a DRK was destroyed when they ripped the kit from us because a bunch of PLDs complained they didn't have the stuff. We lost our parry -> Reprisal (originally a DRK exclusive move that was single target), our Crit -> Low Blow refresh (originally DRK exclusive stun), our Dark Arts + Dark Dance (became Anticipation) combo, our Delirium combo (our 2nd DPS combo), Abyssal Drain spam (it cost MP before), we lost so much of our kit and it was replaced with nothing but Dark Arts spam for EVERYTHING. DRK had no identity in Stormblood, and it was not fun. It's the end of Shadowbringers now, we have what feels like an identity, we have a cohesive kit (excluding Living Dead which is forever bleh), and most importantly, THE CLASS FEELS FUN.