Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

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Originally Posted by jumps004

The outrage brigade really are using this as an opening to profit, diminishing any valid criticisms and hindering chance of real feedback actually getting seen. It is real unfortunate, these official forums seem like a real plague on actual discussion. Parroting their favorite conspiracy theorists without a hint of research, targeting irl people instead of faults within the game itself. I am shocked to even see them playing a game like FFXIV considering the messaging.

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Yup. And it's obnoxious because it's only a handful of bigots in a sea of normal people, but Twitter/media is latching onto those same 5-6 bigots spouting their nonsense to crush any discussion of it on certain platforms.

I seriously hate the Wuk Lamat's voice actor is trans discourse so much. It literally doesn't matter. I think the voice actress has done a bad job, but that's not because she is trans but because she can't read lines right. And people don't dislike Wuk Lamat because her voice actress, but because Wuk is freaking annoying! JP/EU also hates her and they have different VAs!

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Yup. And it's obnoxious because it's only a handful of bigots in a sea of normal people, but Twitter/media is latching onto those same 5-6 bigots spouting their nonsense to crush any discussion of it on certain platforms.

I seriously hate the Wuk Lamat's voice actor is trans discourse so much. It literally doesn't matter. I think the voice actress has done a bad job, but that's not because she is trans but because she can't read lines right. And people don't dislike Wuk Lamat because her voice actress, but because Wuk is freaking annoying! JP/EU also hates her and they have different VAs!

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Let's be honest, there are radicals on both sides and they do an excellent job of scaring away regular people.

It's amazing how society has actually regressed in the last 20 years.

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

If you believe that, make a separate thread or go on 4chan or something. You're seriously making the rest of us look bad and will just decrease the possibility of any reflection on SE's end. People are already not taking the complaints seriously because they think it's just another culture war issue.

Also, Dawntrail isn't even woke. You're telling me woke = some white guys with PhDs waltz into a tribal village and tell them what their own festival does because the tribe is literally too low IQ to know wtf their own festival is for? Or the tribe based in what is clearly inspired by Machu Picchu being literally called Pelupelu. LOL.

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There is definitely understones of attempts at what some would call Woke, for example none of the Cultures are portrayed as inherently bad and any bad things they've done are washed with weak reasons behind why they did that, Its overly colourful for each group and that's intentional, which some would call woke, I would have liked some negatives in these cultures as it makes them feel more authentic. The rubber bullets part comes off woke to some people, because it just comes out of no where in a game that also stabs people through the chest, is it because its a gun? maybe who knows, but some people dont like that. Then there's the changing of Beast Tribes to Allied Societies, now even i will call that woke, there's no other reasoning behind it, someone think its offensive or rude or something to refer to Beast Tribes as Beast Tribes and has convinced them to change it to Allied Society, which sounds like the most Political Correct term you could ask for lol.

So yeah the game is not inherently woke, but there's elements different people with different views will take differently and some will hate it all and say its all woke, while others will say whatever, its just bad writing, but there's definitely things there that are really fucking stupid based on perceived offense.

As for the Hanu, Yeah it comes off as the dumbest shit and makes the Hanu looks really stupid as a culture. Bad writing is all over.
Try not to get so bothered when people use the word Woke, arguing with them isnt going to change their mind, either ignore them and agree to disagree or if you actually care, find out specifics of what they think is woke and form your own opinion as to why you think that was good or bad writing.

Regarding the Hanuhanu part, while it might sound silly that they didn't know the reasons for their ceremonies, it's quite more common than you think. In many cultures and societies, people just follow through with the ceremonies or certain aspects of the cultures without knowing the secondary reasons behind it.

For example, in my culture, there's a song to be performed during the harvesting season. While it might sound silly to perform a song during the harvest under the heat of the sun, it's a method to announce to other villagers that the harvesting season has come, as well as to bring the community closer through the sing along.

So, yeah, while it might sound a little bit silly for a tribe to doesn't know what their ceremony is for, it's a reflection of real phenomenon, and I find it to be quite interesting.

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Originally Posted by NiceNox

Regarding the Hanuhanu part, while it might sound silly that they didn't know the reasons for their ceremonies, it's quite more common than you think. In many cultures and societies, people just follow through with the ceremonies or certain aspects of the cultures without knowing the secondary reasons behind it.

For example, in my culture, there's a song to be performed during the harvesting season. While it might sound silly to perform a song during the harvest under the heat of the sun, it's a method to announce to other villagers that the harvesting season has come, as well as to bring the community closer through the sing along.

So, yeah, while it might sound a little bit silly for a tribe to doesn't know what their ceremony is for, it's a reflection of real phenomenon, and I find it to be quite interesting.

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The issue arises when the game mixes traditional ceremonies with magic that actually affects the physical world. They could see the effects of the ceremony *immediately*, Zanuhali remarks on the effectiveness of the festival.

This is more akin to them neglecting to change their car's oil for years, or diluting the oil with something else because who cares, it still kinda seems to work. It's ridiculously neglectful, for something that is pivotal to their day-to-day life.

On the other note, what are the chances of devs receiving/noticing the negative feedback from the community? Do they read the forum? Or are they relying on someone from the localization or the staff to bring them the feedback? How will we know that they receive the feedback in earnest and not the pick-and-choose ones?

If it was up to the localization team, they'd probably just pretend everything was fine and that everyone really loves Wookie. Thank goodness for being able to leave feedback in many different places so they can't cover it up.

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Originally Posted by Kaecilius

The issue arises when the game mixes traditional ceremonies with magic that actually affects the physical world. They could see the effects of the ceremony *immediately*, Zanuhali remarks on the effectiveness of the festival.

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Worse, it's not like it some long lost art either. The carpenter who maintaining the boat effigy CLEARLY know about it, yet for some reason he decided not to mention this to the Hanu until we showed up. There is convenience story telling, and there is this.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Yup. And it's obnoxious because it's only a handful of bigots in a sea of normal people, but Twitter/media is latching onto those same 5-6 bigots spouting their nonsense to crush any discussion of it on certain platforms.

I seriously hate the Wuk Lamat's voice actor is trans discourse so much. It literally doesn't matter. I think the voice actress has done a bad job, but that's not because she is trans but because she can't read lines right. And people don't dislike Wuk Lamat because her voice actress, but because Wuk is freaking annoying! JP/EU also hates her and they have different VAs!

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I quite literally refuse to air my opinions about DT on Twitter for this exact reason. I am like you and just did not care for Wuk Lamat's VA's delivery of her lines. It has nothing to do with how they identify, and has everything to do with their skill level amongst a sea of seasoned, veteran VA's (just look at Urianger's VA's resume on IMDB compared to Wuk Lamat's). The voice and Wuk's omnipresence this expansion is the reason I did not enjoy MSQ and I'm so so bummed.

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Originally Posted by NiceNox

On the other note, what are the chances of devs receiving/noticing the negative feedback from the community? Do they read the forum? Or are they relying on someone from the localization or the staff to bring them the feedback? How will we know that they receive the feedback in earnest and not the pick-and-choose ones?

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Given that it's not only the english forum this time but also things likethe japanese forum, r/ffxiv, the first gaming magazines, user scores and even the first content creators (even though more the smaller ones) there is no way they don't hear this all.

Now if they do something about it is another question. I want to believe so because it's the story this time and not job changes or hairstyles (anyone remember the Hrothgar hairstyle dilemma?). It's the one thing this game prides itself on compared to the competition.
If they don't react to that in whatever form they might really risk big this time because MSQ enjoyers is probably the biggest part of the community.
Will Dawntrail kill the game? No but 7.x in this form and another expansion like this together could very well do that. At least the game could lose it's "great story" status and tbh what is left then?

Personally I think the first step for them should be saying "we heard your feedback and don't ignore it, don't worry we take it serious".
It would not be the solution but it would calm down people quite a bit.