What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

Much as the Black Rose is the fault of the entire Source in the 8UC, and the Flood of Light is the fault of the entire First, and so it goes with every Calamity. I don't consider that to be a fair verdict in those cases, and I don't see it as fair here either. It's down to the actions of one isolated individual, who did his utmost to hide it from them while it involved an extremely elusive form of power.

No one is saying he's not the ultimate culprit here.

I don't think they ever wanted all the sacrifice in the first place - having the planet aetherically depleted until its regular functions ceased did not give them much room, though.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

You're doing it again, right now. "You can like Venat, it's fine. Even though she has no redeeming qualities, just like Zenos"

Are you actually confused about how what you're doing is toxic? If your position was to just agree to disagree, your posts wouldn't be filled with constant asides about how Venat defenders want to be apologists for genocide because they love thier crystal mommy.

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I don't think that I need to preface every sentence with 'in my opinion'. It can be reasonably deduced that when describing characters I am attributing my own thoughts on their actions, motives and depictions. Just as everybody else is free to do so.

I've linked it before, but for the sake of clarity here's a relevant thread:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...l-Opinion-Vent

Perhaps that will shed some light on the situation I am referring to in regards to a portion of Venat's most dearly devout.

Lmao watching the back and forth where each side posts screenshots and lore quotes kinda makes me think each poster is like this behind their keyboard irl when someone says something they don’t agree with:

https://i.gifer.com/14gn.gif

I admit I’ve felt that way too. It’s good to laugh at all of it and realize that we’ve all become examples of the “Akshually..!” meme lmao

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I just genuinely enjoy discussing the game's story and characters, personally. I simply feel as though the game compromised itself in order to have what it thought would be 'broad appeal'. Fast food might be the most popular cuisine in the world but that doesn't mean it measures up to a juicy Wagyu burger.

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I totally understand and I don’t ever remember feeling the need to vent/discuss the story like this prior to SHB. Some of my frustration actually started around the end of 5.0 but for some reason I either didn’t remember that the forums existed or just didn’t have the energy to start posting about my concerns. I think it all just piled up to where I HAD to say something and at least put my thoughts on the screen.

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Originally Posted by OhNooo

Lmao watching the back and forth where each side posts screenshots and lore quotes kinda makes me think each poster is like this behind their keyboard irl when someone says something they don’t agree with:

https://i.gifer.com/14gn.gif

I admit I’ve felt that way too. It’s good to laugh at all of it and realize that we’ve all become examples of the “Akshually..!” meme lmao

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I just genuinely enjoy discussing the game's story and characters, personally. I simply feel as though the game compromised itself in order to have what it thought would be 'broad appeal'. Fast food might be the most popular cuisine in the world but that doesn't mean it measures up to a juicy Wagyu burger.

Venat strikes me as the equivalent of a Happy Meal and for some, that's more than enough. My tastes are a bit more refined than that, though - so I resonate more with characters who have deeper, more consistent motives and personal stakes. Each to their own, of course.

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Originally Posted by Teraq

(I wonder how many of us who are vocally disappointed in EW are Ascian fans?)

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Likewise, I wonder how many who enjoyed the story were Hydaelyn fans. I can see liking Venat from Elpis, but I never found anything likeable about Hydaelyn starting from ARR and wanted nothing to do with her.

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- Going on an Elder Primal tangent here, what was the point of Hydaelyn being a Primal at all and the ominousness with which this information was treated?

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I think they don't want the world to have true gods and primals are the next best thing. I also suspect that Hydaelyn wasn't originally intended to be the "live-laugh-love mary sue sparkleprincess" (thank you for that, Skyborne!) she was in EW. Her character history doesn't support it. It's unfortunate that it does seem like they either decided to subvert expectations or someone on the team wasn't pleased with her being depicted as anything but a benevolent goddess.

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- God I wish the Final Days had been so much more final and widespread and impactful because I found Thavnair to be super hype, but either this just wasn't meant to be that kind of apocalyptic game/story (completely understandable, have a nice day) or, again, this suffered from plot compression.

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I wanted it to be so there'd be more understanding and sympathy for the original Final Days. Instead, it was a lot of nothing and as a result people act like the first one was no big deal either and the Ancients were just being selfish and emotionally immature in the aftermath.

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Originally Posted by OhNooo

It’s like the devs made the other side seem more interesting and engaging to me. So then when I compared them to the company I was forced to travel with, the scions just felt either boring or annoying to me.

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I didn't hate the Scions, but ever since ShB I've realized how uninvested in them I am. When we actually thought they could die in EW (hah) the only ones I would've been upset about were G'raha, Estinien, and Thancred (when he's not moping about Minfilia at least). I fell in love with Emet, Hythlodaeus, and our identity as Azem. Listening to stories about them sound like a lot more fun than anything I've ever done as the WoL, then Hythlodaeus says they all want to return to the star together... my heart. Needless to say, I cried like a baby at the end of Elpis and then later at Ultima Thule.

I think the issue is the WoL is constantly being used. The only ones who may not be guilty of that are Estinien and Alisaie. Meanwhile, all our old Ancient friends seemed to be actual friends without an agenda.

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Originally Posted by Teraq

Anyway. I have accepted that I am now solely looking forward to the Castlevania crossover, preferably with each new boss getting progressively gayer for Lahabrea, as Ancient Greek God Dracula basically yells "TITS OUT FOR LAHABREA" right in front of Lahabrea's estranged son and Elidibus. Let it be known that I am 100% here for this.

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I do my posting on Monday and it looks like this thread went nuts on my commute back home from work, but I just wanted to say I read everything you wrote and you absolutely made my day with this. It will go in my signature when I can figure out how to do that again and "Tits out for Lahabrea" will become my battle cry.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Venat strikes me as the equivalent of a Happy Meal and for some, that's more than enough. My tastes are a bit more refined than that, though - so I resonate more with characters who have deeper, more consistent motives and personal stakes. Each to their own, of course.

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Have you considered the possibility that people who like Venat are just as discerning and sophisticated in thier tastes as you, or will you keep looking down on us as shoving the equivilent of narrative fast food into our faces while insisting that you're not?

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

Have you considered the possibility that people who like Venat are just as discerning and sophisticated in thier tastes as you, or will you keep looking down on us as shoving the equivilent of narrative fast food into our faces while insisting that you're not?

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As I said in my very post, each to their own - I encourage anyone to pick whatever they like most at the end of the day. Some may even desire both! Who knows?

https://i.imgur.com/dC2mWx5.png

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

Have you considered the possibility that people who like Venat are just as discerning and sophisticated in thier tastes as you, or will you keep looking down on us as shoving the equivilent of narrative fast food into our faces while insisting that you're not?

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Once again, if you’re going to repeatedly try and question someone’s “toxicity,” you should apply the same to miss Eara was being equally as toxic when she referred to our opinions as an echo chamber. I think this conversation has been completely derailed and dare i say it seems somewhat intentional? In the end it’s just giving more proof of people on the venat side of things unable to handle people just sharing their opinions on the story and having to insert themselves constantly even when it doesn’t fit the conversation very much.

Regardless in terms of someone’s other comment about genocide, keep in mind that the first two sacrifices were if i’m not mistaken completely voluntary. The only one that might not have been is the 3rd set of sacrifices which weren’t even carried out.The Ascian’s plans may be considered genocide, but keep in mind the ascians and ancients are technically two different entities. The problem and why Venat is so evil though, is her act of the sundering had 0 consent from seemingly anyone. She’s essentially worse than the ascians, as she annihilated her entire people, but not only that, every other innocent person and being on the planet, and then causing even more death due to the lower lifespans and vulnerability to illness. Of which she then kept the specifics a secret.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

First, there the fact that the existence of Dynamis is not widely known at all. Emet and Hythlo, both scholars and experts in their own right, lack any knowledge of its existence until Hermes explains it to them. Venat as well didn’t know until we told her. It’s rational to conclude then that the vast vast majority of the Ancient world possess no knowledge of Dynamis.

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They simply had no reason to pursue that knowledge at large because dynamis wasn't predominant in Etheyris and it's also weaker than aether, so there weren't "practical" applications. Hermes's was a personal interest in learning about other worlds to try to fill his existencial voids, so think of it as his "hobby". But that doesn't mean they weren't capable of conducting such research if they had REASON to. Like preventing their race and planet from being wiped out from existance.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Second, there’s the fact that as far as has been said entelechies have only been created in Elpis, with both the flower and Meteion hailing from there. Meteion as well is the most special between the two, being the only one possessed of a will or the ability to effect change in Dynamis.

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The flowers may have been created there but they're present in other places too. Scarce, but not exclussive to Elpis. But I don't think this is as relevant as you think it is.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Third, even in Elpis the researchers we speak too lack any understanding of how Meteion or Dynamis functions.

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And as I've mentioned before, Elpis is just one research facility. And one devoted to testing creations before letting them roam free. Its main purpose wasn't to design new creations inside it, but rather for everybody across the star to bring their creations and test them. Considering dynamis wasn't a practical avenue for them to explore it's not surprising that the only person with knowledge about it has it because of a hobby. But again, Elpis is JUST ONE RESEARCH FACILITY.


Having said all this, the "objective statements" you made afterwards crumble down except for the "other scholars" and Hythlodaeus parts. First one is explicitly stated in dialog, the 2nd can be inferred. Also, just because knowledge is scarce doesn't mean it's old, abandoned knowledge.