Black Mage

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

Even so, she still hampers with my rotation far more than I'd like, so either Blackcat is a lot better than she says she is (don't doubt it) or whatever..

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Practice.

The very first Halicarnassus kill I had was after a grueling 9-hour stint of joining various practice parties and getting every mechanic down with the right cooldown to deal with it. There are still a few points where it gets iffy based on my Book square and Hali's jumps, but you can angle having a Firestarter for those to help deal with it, good use of Leylines and BTL, and Aether Manipulation.

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

Considering that BLM's DPS can massively fluctuate by the will of the RNG? It's pretty much always an issue as it throws potency out of the player's hands in into the hands of sheer luck. Not to mention, by removing that randomness and its urgency, it removes the potential of having to choose Thunder over a Fire IV, which is something that you've admitted ruins a rotation.

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Plenty of other classes have that, and its not the reason why BLM isn't a favored pick. The issue with Thunder isn't that its RNG, its that there aren't many places to put it rotationally because it isn't as strong as F4 in some situations, and is stronger on others. If either it was strong enough to always use, or if the proc couldn't get overwritten, or there were more places to fit it into the rotation, then that would solve it. Your suggestion just limits the number of procs in a way which would be a dps loss imo

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

I'm IN Savage, and my static has been struggling against Halicarnassus quite a bit. Part of it has to do with the boss's love of screwing with movement and timing to the point that it's honestly rather difficult to keep the rotation up for long. And Black Mage's issues have a lot to do with underwhelming damage and damage fluctuation. Sometimes, it'll underperform, sometimes it'll be utterly worthless with damage and sometimes it'll be at the right spot.

Thundercloud being almost entirely at the will of RNG is a huge issue, and needs to be addressed. Firestarter, one of our most vital tools to extending our Astral Fire rotation, needs to be addressed. Sharpcast did nothing to address them, beyond a quick bandaid. There are other issues needing to be addressed but these are the issues that I've tried to address. Perhaps Thundercloud's potency should also be increased as a result of the aether static proposal removing the "random" Thunderclouds or the Astral Hearts should boost Fire's potency more than just 20 per heart, but I don't know.

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BLM's reason for not being meta is not damage fluctuation. Bard is meta and has that issue too. Removing adjustments to rotations to make it the same thing every time is boring. Firestarter does not need to be addressed. I've also given alternative ways of extending our AF rotation. You just don't have the experience with the class if you are unaware of the issues I posted about earlier. Your suggestions just don't address those.

And if you are still having trouble with OS3, you need more practice.

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

Even so, she still hampers with my rotation far more than I'd like, so either Blackcat is a lot better than she says she is (don't doubt it) or whatever.

While hashing the idea out in my static discord, another friend who happens to play Black Mage a bit suggested the following change, so Firestarter AS IS would remain, but it would improve the MP economy of Black Mage.

Trait: Astral Conversion: Casting a Fire Spell under the effect of an Umbral Heart converts the Umbral Heart to an Astral Heart. Astral Hearts decrease the cast time and cost of Fire by half and only consume one Astral Heart per cast. If a Fire cast under the effect of an Astral Heart procs Firestarter, the Firestarter will upgrade to Blazestarter/Infernostarter.

Blazestarter/Infernostarter: Your next cast of Flare will have no cast timer and no MP cost.

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Just stop. Please. You are blissfully unaware of the issues BLM has and you are just throwing crap against the wall hoping something sticks.

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

Even so, she still hampers with my rotation far more than I'd like, so either Blackcat is a lot better than she says she is (don't doubt it) or whatever.

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No offense, but did you ever consider that you're... just not good as BLM? I started pugging O3S a week ago and it took me 3 evenings with a few hours to clear it. Outside of the last phase, the fight is 100% predictable, lines up relatively nicely with your cooldowns and has a lot of opportunities to slide your way towards wherever it is you have to go before the mechanic even casts. For everything else, you have swift/triplecast and the ability to force procs with Sharpcast... or simply holding a proc. I found that Hali doesn't mess much with my movement unless I make a mistake.

os3 isnt a "big" issue for blm (besides some Rng in final phase, and besides losing 15 sec of aoe dps, where we could push our best numbers, due to having to LB3 during that phase, ..by the time the LB3 is over, so is the aoe phase with numerous adds over)

imo os4 and BU (and sometimes the last phase of Shunryu Ex or some phases of the 24-man raid) are the (mobility) issues of blm

aside of thise imo issues fights (unless maybe your static centers around you as a blm), blm has the biggest issues getting in prog or fast farm PFs.. (needs more dps or utility)

Even Shinryu EX is really not such a big deal especially since the heavy movement phase in on around 1 min timer and the real pain in the ass is on the boss whim completely as he can sometimes simply never use that combo.

That said I think that ppl should actually think about how they use their tools in a fight before saying that a fight is prohibitive for a job.
Tools are given to be used and we have the tools to deal with the content at hand otherwise we might aswell ask them to give us instant casts on all spells.

That said what traspires then is that when you do your job right you are not reward with higher dps which it should be corrected asap

Glad to see that I'm not the only one who can't seem to get through to Ellie.... kinda. Honestly, I mean no disrespect, but it's pretty mind-boggling to read responses that blatantly ignore statements or refuse to listen to reason.


Anyway, new topic for discussion: I think John Blaze made an interesting case in the BLM channel the other day saying that the job SHOULD be severely punished for needing to move unplanned, but have a MUCH higher reward for planning ahead/proper execution. He went as far as to say that they should reset the Astral/Umbral timer down to 10s and remove "movement only" tools like triplecast from the game.

This intrigues me, as it would encourage exceptional play, but it would widen the gap between player skill levels. Discuss.

Side note: I just need the LL already. And, Happy New Year!

It wouldn't just widen the gap, it would simply kill the job.
I know you all like to think about high end balance and all but the rest of the game still exist don't forget that

I mean, would it "kill" the job, though?

How many HeavyshotspamBRDs do you still see and 123DRGs/NINs/SAMs? I certainly wouldn't say that their jobs are "killed", and they're probably pulling an estimated less-than-half their DPS potential.


If their [the developers'] "vision" for the class is to make it "rare" to see good BLM players who are very powerful, then this seems justified. I'm not saying I necessarily agree, by any means, it's just one line of logic.

Weren't we discussing that ppl don't want BLM in parties because the chance of them beign terrible is high?

Imagine doing what was proposed woul do.
Not to mention it would make BLM completely unviable in the current content

Oh and I don't agree with that argument btw, frankly I should ban NIN from my parties if my general experience is of any indication

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Originally Posted by Llugen

Glad to see that I'm not the only one who can't seem to get through to Ellie.... kinda. Honestly, I mean no disrespect, but it's pretty mind-boggling to read responses that blatantly ignore statements or refuse to listen to reason.

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This is entirely why we don't listen to you.

You have been given a ton of reasons why a Raise variant on a black mage is an incredibly stupid idea from multiple sources and multiple reasons, and you do not give a fig for anyone's opinion but those who agree with you. We all agree black mage needs help, but we don't all agree on what kind of help. You'd rather black mage gets more utility, we'd rather black mage gets more DPS (primarily because DPS is its primary function and it's failing there more than anywhere else right now). We can argue all year about whether black mage should be more mobile, do more damage, or anything else, but at the end of the day, it's not our choice. Maybe if you cared more about the black mage as a job and less about having your own personal echo chamber, your ideas would be taken more seriously. Maybe if you understood the devs care about both the lore and the gameplay, you could come up with ideas that were worth their time. At least EllieShadeflare and I are trying to come up with ideas that aren't just flat-out stupid.

But you don't care. All you care about is turning black mage into blue mage and garnering pity from people by saying you're "forced" to play jobs you hate. Frankly, I think it would be better if you just quit this game entirely and went to World of Warcraft, where idiocy like that is embraced and appreciated from what I hear.

I think it's best if we just let this thread die and stop talking to one another entirely. The devs have all the power, so let them use it. I've had enough.