Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by Daweism

To do max DPS, always keep your Cooldowns... on Cooldown.
I do PS (as the MT is about to pull), IR+B4B (right before u get into melee), HT (right as you enter melee), LS, ID, JUMP, DE, DFD, CT, SS, PHLEB.

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Are you trolling us right now?

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Originally Posted by HonchoBancho

I've always been hesitant to use untraited IR on its own for whatever reason.

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Using IR on cooldown will apply it to every other Chaos Thrust and one out of every three Phlebotomizes. Because of the snapshotting system, the crit chance for each tick will be locked in even after IR wears off. DoTs give you the most opportunities for IR to work its magic, and so they more reliably make use of it as a buff, rather than depending on luck.

Holding IR given perfect conditions is ultimately not beneficial because (1) it's not a big enough buff to multiply with BfB compared to how much shorter the cooldown is (2) and it throws off this synergy.

It's not obvious it's working (like it is on monk), but it's definitely there.

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Originally Posted by HonchoBancho

And while we're at it, IR or B4B first? The OP explains IR first to avoid the risk of B4B falling off before Full Thrust, but those days are long gone with the amount of SS we tend to have now.

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In a dummy situation, BfB would not be falling off before Full Thrust even with no extra skill speed at all. The rotation in the OP is more "best practices" than it is some theoretical ideal you can't always attain. If you have less than perfect uptime in the first few seconds of a fight for any reason, that slight delay on BfB often proves to have exactly the benefit stated.

I've always done BFB -> IR for two reasons.

1) You get the BFB right as you start ID, which is a PPS increase over using IR with ID, no matter which way you look at it
2) I love the increased chance of IR buffing my DFD, which I always land at the end of my opening burst. Both BFB + IR last until I use DFD.

When you go crit for 2k Full Thrust, followed by a 1.3k DFD, it gives me all kinds of giggles.

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Originally Posted by Spayd

Well as a DRG, you want to have as less SS as possible so you can focus on Crit/Det so you can get more Deeps, since we have no SS buff like MNK or NIN. IMHO, it's not worth trying to have a SS cap just for Phlebo, you'll end up doing lessthan if you just focused on crit/det. But up to you, hope it works fine for you !

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Of course I would never prefer ss over det & crit and Im also playing with almost zero ss. thats why I said that 407 is out of reach. Ive just been thinking of the crafted belt and helmet having as much ss as possible (right after all other desired stats are maxed out). that would be 18 ss in the helmet and another 18 in the belt ending up with 36 extra ss you wouldnt have with ilvl 130 gear. added to the basic ss of 341 you could get 377 which is ok to have but dosnt close the gap between 2 phlebs. Well Im fine with a bit less ss then (9 in the helmet and 15 in the belt) and leave it at that.

Oh and I prefer BFB first too

I use IR first in my opener, which might not be the best but I like it

HT(IR)(BfB)-ID(PS)-Dis(jump)-CT(DfD)-Phleb(SS)-TT(leg)-VT(LS)-FT

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

Are you trolling us right now?

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No? Elaborate.

I've started using bfb first, feels smoother for buffing jumps, 1) all 2) unbuffed 3) ps, ir 4) bfb etc

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Originally Posted by Daweism

No? Elaborate.

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" LS, ID"

Do you use Life Surge for ID?

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Originally Posted by Dunncan

" LS, ID"

Do you use Life Surge for ID?

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Leg sweep?

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Originally Posted by Shinji_Ryukishi

Leg sweep?

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Yeah Leg Sweep, I use Life Surge for FT, sorry about confusion.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

When you go crit for 2k Full Thrust, followed by a 1.3k DFD, it gives me all kinds of giggles.

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Yeaaah, then that coupled with a well timed Trick Attack (or unfortunately timed if you're the tank :3).

Is Black Truffle still the best food?

It gives u the highest burst opening in my opinion. Cuz you have ur cooldowns prepped before u land that initial HT right as the tank pulls, and the sooner u use the cooldowns, the soon they are available again.

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Originally Posted by Daweism

To do max DPS, always keep your Cooldowns... on Cooldown.
I do PS (as the MT is about to pull), IR+B4B (right before u get into melee), HT (right as you enter melee), LS, ID, JUMP, DE, DFD, CT, SS, PHLEB.

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

Are you trolling us right now?

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Because making sure your cooldowns are on cooldowns is more important than timing them on the right skills... That's a real skill to have my friend...

Like dropping IR before Vorpal, dropping B4B before Full, and using LS on a 180 potency skill instead of 360 potency skill...

Some may claim the next comment as elitist but... "Join date June 2014? Wait in line son..."

LS is leg sweep...

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Originally Posted by Spartan117

Because making sure your cooldowns are on cooldowns is more important than timing them on the right skills... That's a real skill to have my friend...

Like dropping IR before Vorpal, dropping B4B before Full, and using LS on a 180 potency skill instead of 360 potency skill...

Some may claim the next comment as elitist but... "Join date June 2014? Wait in line son..."

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Except B4B does not drop before FT and LS is Leg Sweep. Because join date makes you a better or worse player. Especially when what you've claimed against me is wrong by fact, you think I would let B4B drop before FT? There is nothing actually elite about your post except your attitude.

The rotation in the first post doesn't include Spineshatter Dive OR DFD, and if you follow it to the teeth, you will not be able to do ONE of them until after FT. Go crunch your numbers.

Downed T13 today, finally and throughout the Final Coil, I got only 1 piece of loot. Dreadwyrm Necklace, not feeling so lucky. I had the same situation in Second Coil took months to see any loot... How is your loot luck other Dragoons?

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Originally Posted by Zankes

Downed T13 today, finally and throughout the Final Coil, I got only 1 piece of loot. Dreadwyrm Necklace, not feeling so lucky. I had the same situation in Second Coil took months to see any loot... How is your loot luck other Dragoons?

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I got dreadwyrm belt on week 1 of patch. Nothing since then. Downed t13 this Friday and got the spear and pants! Luck was on my side that day (although the pants are poop)

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Originally Posted by Zankes

Downed T13 today, finally and throughout the Final Coil, I got only 1 piece of loot. Dreadwyrm Necklace, not feeling so lucky. I had the same situation in Second Coil took months to see any loot... How is your loot luck other Dragoons?

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I am in the same boat. I got the BELT week one and the Earring this week, nothing else. The Dragoon in the other group got the HELM and NECK on this week on his 2nd T11 kill. FML.

I've had good left side luck so far, helm, chest, belt and boots. No right side though. Much better luck this coil than second coil for me.

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Originally Posted by Daweism

Except B4B does not drop before FT and LS is Leg Sweep. Because join date makes you a better or worse player. Especially when what you've claimed against me is wrong by fact, you think I would let B4B drop before FT? There is nothing actually elite about your post except your attitude.

The rotation in the first post doesn't include Spineshatter Dive OR DFD, and if you follow it to the teeth, you will not be able to do ONE of them until after FT. Go crunch your numbers.

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*Cough coughs* Rotation in first post don't include SSD or DFD so you can't do it until after FT *Cough coughs* Now i see why ur BFB doesn't drop before FT and IR doesn't drop before Vorpal, and basically missing out on 2 OGCDs with crit and dmg buff... *Cough coughs*

Don't get me wrong but old DRG players can tell on one look of your rotation whether you are just blowing a lot of hot air or brewing serious shit. I'm not the only one.

pretty sure I got the most chests opened and I got belt, pants, earrings and ring.

Pants and earrings worthless as the pants are worse than the non-augmented poetic and I got augmented earrings so gg.

claw cane claw bow axe sword gg.

Well i dont play dragoon for this coil but i got the head piece if that counts.

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Originally Posted by Spartan117

*Cough coughs* Rotation in first post don't include SSD or DFD so you can't do it until after FT *Cough coughs* Now i see why ur BFB doesn't drop before FT and IR doesn't drop before Vorpal, and basically missing out on 2 OGCDs with crit and dmg buff... *Cough coughs*

Don't get me wrong but old DRG players can tell on one look of your rotation whether you are just blowing a lot of hot air or brewing serious shit. I'm not the only one.

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I think u misunderstood, I meant that I DO include DFD and SSD in my rotation, whilst hitting a Lifesurged FT with BFB up. I'm breaking 500+ DPS on T10 and T11 @ i119 with Longinus, if you in fact do more DPS I am always open to learning and improving.

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

pretty sure I got the most chests opened and I got belt, pants, earrings and ring.

Pants and earrings worthless as the pants are worse than the non-augmented poetic and I got augmented earrings so gg.

claw cane claw bow axe sword gg.

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#lootdreams

Should definetl listen to those oppression audiobooks, so you can feel like a dragoon under the dragons' oppresion and maybe, just maybe, loot Thor will be kind :D

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Originally Posted by Odowla

#lootdreams

Should definetl listen to those oppression audiobooks, so you can feel like a dragoon under the dragons' oppresion and maybe, just maybe, loot Thor will be kind :D

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I sense our 5th healer boots this week, and maybe 5th or 6th Monk piece (no Monk).

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Originally Posted by Zeviand

I got dreadwyrm belt on week 1 of patch. Nothing since then. Downed t13 this Friday and got the spear and pants! Luck was on my side that day (although the pants are poop)

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Still hate you. ;-;

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Originally Posted by Noxotic

Still hate you. ;-;

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If you want to feel happy about yourself, I've not even stepped foot into the FBOC yet :( Hopefully this week! (I've been saying this for the past 2 weeks...)

Hey Guys, Quick question with the new timers is Skill Speed a better looking secondary stat then before? and is the rotation from the OP still relevant?

Right now I have only Animus weapon, Poetic Chest, Legs, Boots, Head, and Ring.

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Originally Posted by Arson_king

Hey Guys, Quick question with the new timers is Skill Speed a better looking secondary stat then before? and is the rotation from the OP still relevant?

Right now I have only Animus weapon, Poetic Chest, Legs, Boots, Head, and Ring.

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Check this thread on reddit, very useful info on what you asked. http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...eight_updates/

Snippet:
The more Crit you have, the less valuable the next point of Crit becomes.
Critting an attack increases its damage by 50%.
So...
Going from 0% Crit to 10% Crit increases your damage by 5.00%.
Going from 10% Crit to 20% Crit increases your damage by 4.76%.
Going from 20% Crit to 30% Crit increases your damage by 4.54%.
Going from 30% Crit to 40% Crit increases your damage by 4.35%.
This also interacts with abilities that increase your crit rate, such as Internal Release and Wrath stacks.
As for Skill Speed and Spell Speed...
SS works in reverse. The SS stat reduces the time of your casts and GCDs by a flat amount.
Approx 105 Skill Speed will reduce your GCD by 0.1s.
So...
Going from 2.5s to 2.4s GCD increases your WS DPS by 4.16%
Going from 2.4s to 2.3s GCD increases your WS DPS by 4.35%
Going from 2.3s to 2.2s GCD increases your WS DPS by 4.54%
Going from 2.2s to 2.1s GCD increases your WS DPS by 4.76%

I am not in Final Coil yet, still in the beginning stages of Second Coil...Would you then say Poetic Belt, Hands, And Neck are great pieces? I was planning on spending my poetic on earing and Wrist. I was planning on holding out to see what the New CT would bring to us gear wise.

On that note, Would you then suggest Skill Speed on a Novus? I am not the richest person, but I was planning on going 24 Determination (lol I do have one IV Materia),33 Critical, and 18 Accuracy.

Do you guys think it's worth it to give up 57 CRIT and 29 Skill Speed for 52 DET? Weights say crit+skillspeed is better, but they involve someRng. Helps every hit. What do?

Daweism, that post is kinda irrelevant to what he was asking.

And no Arson_King. Get accuracy and remove SkillSpeed is essentially what we're all doing now - unless you're going for absolutely maximum crafted BiS where SkillSpeed is relevant. At least with 18 accuracy on your Novus, you can replace one of the other accuracy heavy accessories and replace it for a pure DPS variant, such as the Dreadwyrm Earrings of Slaying.

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Originally Posted by Noxotic

Do you guys think it's worth it to give up 57 CRIT and 29 Skill Speed for 52 DET? Weights say crit+skillspeed is better, but they involve someRng. Helps every hit. What do?

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What items are we talking about here? Personally, I'd do the swap, but 52 DET? How are you losing 52 DET? That's a pretty big loss.

Theory crafting, ariyalas calculator BiS with and without food. Without food shows no skill speed, but add black truffle risotto and you get 52 Determination over the BiS option with food, but that option loses that DET in favor of 57 CRIT + Skill Speed.

Option #1: With Food Calculated
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OYPZ

Option #2: Without Food Calculated, then adding BTR for DET
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OYQ3

Ok! great.. are you still using OP rotation? and something I am getting stuck on is AOE Rotation! last Question of the Day lol ( I get three a day!)

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Originally Posted by Noxotic

Theory crafting, ariyalas calculator BiS with and without food. Without food shows no skill speed, but add black truffle risotto and you get 52 Determination over the BiS option with food, but that option loses that DET in favor of 57 CRIT + Skill Speed.

Option #1: With Food Calculated
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OYPZ

Option #2: Without Food Calculated, then adding BTR for DET
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OYQ3

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Oh, you're talking about the BiS sets I calculated 2 weeks ago.

There's like a 1-2 DPS difference between the two. Pick whichever you prefer.

I just noticed that you calcuated BiS using out of date weights. Here's the two BiS sets you should be working with (doesn't include crafted gear):

BiS ilvl135 @ 535 Accuracy/T13 - Highest DPS on paper
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OTNT

BiS ilvl135 @ 535 Accuracy/T13 - 410 Determination
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OTNX

Top one is highest, theoretical DPS. Second just has 410 Determination and is only 1-2 DPS behind, on paper.

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Originally Posted by Arson_king

Ok! great.. are you still using OP rotation? and something I am getting stuck on is AOE Rotation! last Question of the Day lol ( I get three a day!)

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Yes, H IDC P TTT.

But, cooldown management is different.

Use IR + PS + Jump together. Though, as jump is on a 30s cooldown, so you can use it once more before you buff it up again with PS + IR. Essentially, Jump 1 buffed, Jump 2 unbuffed, Jump 3 buffed, jump 4 unbuffed etc.

Use Blood For Blood whenever it pops up, same for Leg Sweep.

Dragonfire Dive + Spineshatter are used however you want to.

If your skillspeed is below 390, rotate the use of Life Surge between Full Thrust and Chaos Thrust, as it's 50s Cooldown. If it's above this number, only use Life Surge on Full Thrust. Though, if you've had A LOT of practice, then you can use Life Surge with CT + FT at much higher SkillSpeed (I do it with 441 SS)

first set has 493 acc

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Oh, you're talking about the BiS sets I calculated 2 weeks ago.

There's like a 1-2 DPS difference between the two. Pick whichever you prefer.

I just noticed that you calcuated BiS using out of date weights. Here's the two BiS sets you should be working with (doesn't include crafted gear):

BiS ilvl135 @ 535 Accuracy/T13 - Highest DPS on paper
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OTVH

BiS ilvl135 @ 535 Accuracy/T13 - 410 Determination
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OTNX

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i'm too lazy to test it but do dots and disembowel fall off if we use the set with +0 skillspeed?

Fucks sake .-.

Edited. I really should get myself a list of all the sets compiled somewhere... I never bother keep them compiled as I just use my solver if I need to know what the BiS set is.

@ Ricky. Phlebotomize should fall off for a second before re-application at such low skillspeed. Disembowl and Chaos Thrust shouldn't, unless you've delayed your GDCs by overlapping oGDCs, or due to AOE mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Oh, you're talking about the BiS sets I calculated 2 weeks ago.

There's like a 1-2 DPS difference between the two. Pick whichever you prefer.

I just noticed that you calcuated BiS using out of date weights. Here's the two BiS sets you should be working with (doesn't include crafted gear):

BiS ilvl135 @ 535 Accuracy/T13 - Highest DPS on paper
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OTNT

BiS ilvl135 @ 535 Accuracy/T13 - 410 Determination
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OTNX

Top one is highest, theoretical DPS. Second just has 410 Determination and is only 1-2 DPS behind, on paper.

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I could sworn I edited the stat weights to the new ones when I put it in. Idk how there are different results haha. Maybe I didn't.