Live Letter Thoughts

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

From what was implied slightly (and we probably could have understood more if a certain zone wasn't 90% devoted to fan service) is that the influence of Meteion was suggesting the populace sacrifice half of themselves - again and again - to sustain Zodiark. While we see that Zodiark was holding it back just fine without more sacrifices, I sort of assumed it was that it was the direct result of the Song's influence causing people to double down until no one was left.

SE didn't clarify or justify it, but that was my final interpretation of the cinematic. Why Venat wasn't influenced and why the Unsundered wanted to continue the cycle (sacrifice all those on the shards) I have no idea.

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that doesn't shake considering Zodiark specifically shielded the star from meteion.
Hence the "at last" when Big Z bit it.
So all the sacrifice idea are all their own.

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Originally Posted by hagare

that doesn't shake considering Zodiark specifically shielded the star from meteion.
Hence the "at last" when Big Z bit it.
So all the sacrifice idea are all their own.

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Yeah, and it makes even less sense because he was holding it back regardless of more sacrifices or not. It's all half-baked.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Yeah, and it makes even less sense because he was holding it back regardless of more sacrifices or not. It's all half-baked.

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No. I see it as Summoning Big Z was successful and meteion was held back.
But the Ascians didn't see that as enough, and they basically want to sacrifice more to expand Big Z's function to restore things to the way they were.
Basically what they're doing is digging a hole to plug another hole.
They were probably thinking about creating new creatures to sacrifice to Big Z to upgrade him.

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Originally Posted by hagare

They were probably thinking about creating new creatures to sacrifice to Big Z to upgrade him.

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That would have been 1000x cooler to see than what we got, honestly. The big problem is there is a lack of clarity in the big reveal. I remember my FC arguing in VC for about an hour because no one could really 100% get behind one interpretation. You could argue that leaving things up for the viewer to discern is clever story telling, but in this instance it just pangs me as Rule of Cool cutscene time sacrificing the explanation.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

That would have been 1000x cooler to see than what we got, honestly. The big problem is there is a lack of clarity in the big reveal. I remember my FC arguing in VC for about an hour because no one could really 100% get behind one interpretation. You could argue that leaving things up for the viewer to discern is clever story telling, but in this instance it just pangs me as Rule of Cool cutscene time sacrificing the explanation.

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I don't know, I feel like the context clues were enough. *shrug*

Glam dresser upgrade are nice. Sanctuary seem okay. Rest are the same old stuffs. Hilderbrand as a relic, oh boy. Yet still no qol changes such controller getting fixes or
UI improvements. 4/10

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Originally Posted by Rowde

From LiveLetter LXVIII
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5861033

6th image in this post
to be fair it specifically says
"Additional area for Island Sanctuary"

the 2nd island thing seems to be community imagination running away with that sparse piece of info

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Thank you for the link. So that could also just mean that the island grows a bit (or get new building and stuff added) which imo makes more sense, because the island we will get is already huge.

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Originally Posted by Tetsujin

I've got a question since people are talking about genocide. Did Hydaelyn actually kill anyone when she split existence into 14 pieces? As I understood it, separated people, soul, body, and planet. Made 14 lesser versions of each in 14 different states of existence. If not, how could civilizations still remember ancients?

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As far as we know the sundering did not kill because otherwise nobody would be alive. They may have messed up their memories though and some of their abilities. Of course for some, losing their memory could mean that the person is bascially death.

I mean I can see it from the angle of their memories because how a person acts is defined by what they have experienced. Taking that away could mean that they become a whole new person. But their bodies and mind are still theirs so is it truly death? (And that is with the assumption that they lost all memories)

I dont agree though if someone says that its genocide because the ancients got reduced in their powers. If I am in a accident and lose the functions of my legs, I am still me. And Dave is still Dave even if he cant just snap everything in existence anymore.

So I guess it comes down to what someone already sees as genocide? (Which means there will never be a solution to that)

The Ascians are more clear with that since they bascially do wipe out whole planets and kill its people.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

As far as we know the sundering did not kill because otherwise nobody would be alive. They may have messed up their memories though and some of their abilities. Of course for some, losing their memory could mean that the person is bascially death. So I guess it comes down to what someone already sees as genocide?

The Ascians are more clear with that since they bascially do wipe out whole planets and kill its people.

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It's a philosophical (and albeit very pointless discussion to be had). Is it really death if you're 'reincarnated' effectively, or is the act more akin to maiming? depending on the perspective, you would effectively be taking Venat's action as infringing on:

(a) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(b) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

Keep in mind that genocide is not just exclusively an act of killing.

It's equally the same as what Emet-Selch and co. were doing. In that, he didn't really view our lives, as... Being life... Just ghastly mockeries of the ancients. So does he really view that as genocidal? Probably not, but by his own admission he saw himself then as a megalomaniacal madman. It's just a matter of relativism. From the perspective of 'us' - It would absolutely be a genocidal act, either by intent to cause harm or by conspiracy to commit it. Conversely, from their perspective, it is just 'restoring the star to its rightful place, and humanity therein'. - It would be the same for the acts committed by Venat. From her perspective, it wouldn't necessarily constitute a genocidal act on the basis that she may have seen it as the only possible measure for ensuring life (and not just a circle of death on which they were bordering on). However, on behalf of those, she was subjecting it to, it was absolutely that very act of genocide, just simple on points a/b).

That being said if we look at this through a less philosophical lens then it was all down to Hermes and his nihilistic view of the world leading him to play the game of judge, jury, and executioner with the universe. So in reality he's inarguably the biggest perpetrator, then we have Venat pulling the act out of what she saw as a necessity, and well... Beyond that point, we just have the unsundered following by Venat's example.

Conclusion? They are all as bad as one another.

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So that could also just mean that the island grows a bit (or get new building and stuff added) which imo makes more sense, because the island we will get is already huge.

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Yup.

Will be added as patches come along. Looking forward to it hugely..and I think to celebrate, Ill bring home some hamburgers.

No one tell Aveyond, okay? I dont think his blood pressure will be able to handle it :D:D:D:D

So in catching up with all the posts since I last read the thread:

While a few people are still trying to engage in discussion of things that happened in the Live Letter (mostly Island Sanctuary), most are intent on pursuing their personal agendas still.

aveyond-dreams has basically expressed the wish that for FFXIV to be a pure high fantasy game despite the Final Fantasy franchise having a history of being a mix of high fantasy and low fantasy.

The Team Zodiark versus Team Hydaelyn war continues with genocide back on the menu as one side submits a definition as evidence but in doing so reveals its hypocrisy.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

At any rate, here's the official definition of genocide:

https://i.imgur.com/Q6LEJqQ.png

The Sundering fits every single criteria. So...yes, it's an act of genocide. Hide it behind fluffy language all you like though if the protagonists wouldn't accept such a thing happening to their loved ones then there's really no reason for anybody else to either.

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By that definition, so do the actions of the Convocation of FourteenThirteen.

They had the intent to destroy a part of their own people for the sake of summoning Zodiark. They did so.

After they did that, they had the intent to destroy a part of their own people to repair the damage to Etheirys. They did so.

After that, they had the intent to destroy multiple forms of newly created life on Etheirys to try to bring back those who were killed the first time around. Venat stopped that via the Sundering.

So why do people want to venerate the group that succeeded in 2 acts of genocide and were about to commit multiple genocides while demonizing the individual that stopped that massive wave of genocide by sundering the world to create multiple copies of all life, which probably might be considered genocide since with the knowledge we gave her she knew that some would survive but many others would die though her intent was not to actually destroy everything but rather to try to preserve what then existed?

Something seems fishy, especially when the reality is none of these things happened. It's just a fictional story created for entertainment and a lot of people are taking it way too seriously to the detriment of their mental health.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

So why do people want to venerate the group that succeeded in 2 acts of genocide and were about to commit multiple genocides while demonizing the individual that stopped that massive wave of genocide by sundering the world to create multiple copies of all life, which probably might be considered genocide since with the knowledge we gave her she knew that some would survive but many others would die though her intent was not to actually destroy everything but rather to try to preserve what then existed?

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Because Venat refused to tell people the truth, setting the stage for the Convocation to summon Zodiark and so on. We do not view her as a savior, and are unlikely to be convinced she is one. The official definition of genocide has already been stated, and it is applicable in the case of the ancients. Continuing to paint her as a herois while painting the ancients as evil and arrogant is tiresome to those of us who are fans of them. This doesn't make for a story that we want to see through to the end, and remains a source of concern about the upcoming raid questline.

She also did not create "copies" she reduced everything to this:

https://i.imgur.com/0gSaqmC.png

This is not a copy paste job. This is to date the sole depiction of the aftermath of the Sundering (canon, written by Ishikawa) and Yoship has already stated that Hyurs, Elezen and the like evolved from this into the respective races thus Venat is not their "mother." The fact that they are bringing both her and Meteion up again has us worried for how prevalent that will be in the MSQ, so forgive us we express our concern with how they've handled things thus far and may continue with in the future.

Fundamentally fans of the Ascians, Zodiark, Emet-Selch and all understand that yeah, they did some wrong things and indeed inflict a genocide on multiple planets. But so did Hydaelyn, and she is hailed as a herois for it, with the game intent on pushing that notion repeatedly. They raise her up at the expense of the antagonist faction that many came to love, so it is any wonder why maybe we feel like this a bit one-sided?

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Ill bring home some hamburgers.

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will it have pineapple?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

By that definition, so do the actions of the Convocation of FourteenThirteen.

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that was and should never have been in doubt.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

So why do people want to venerate the group that succeeded in 2 acts of genocide

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Two? do the rejoinings not count? How many reflections have they destroyed? Not to mention the 13th which was a failed experiment for them.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

She also did not create "copies" she reduced everything to this:

https://i.imgur.com/0gSaqmC.png

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You're talking about the impressions of a character who saw our characters and civilizations in that way as well. He told us point blank that he doesn't consider us truly alive and therefore it's not murder if he kills us.

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Originally Posted by hagare

will it have pineapple?



that was and should never have been in doubt.



Two? do the rejoinings not count? How many reflections have they destroyed? Not to mention the 13th which was a failed experiment for them.

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You're correct, thank you. I forget about the 7 successful rejoinings (or 8 if you count the now alternate timeline of Biggs the 3rd, with that timeline possibly having even more rejoinings to come depending on just how powerful Midgardsormr truly is).

Still, people have been taking a fictional story WAAAAYYYYY too seriously. Please step back a few minutes and root yourselves in reality. None of those characters ever existed. The choices they made about what to do and the consequences of those actions never happened. Nothing says you need to like the story told or any specific characters but getting yourselves worked up so much over it is not healthy.

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

It's the Ancients that want to sacrifice themselves to save their world by primal, but Venat stopped them and sunder the world to stop their nonsense... (Correct me if I'm wrong)

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No, thats basically it.

The ancients, the convocation and a majority of ancients, sacrificed themselves to summon/keep Zodiark summoned to stop the Final Days triggered by Metion. All the sacrificed Ancients 'souls' are represented by all the faces in the cutscene with Zodiark, and even Emet when he transforms into Hades, and shows them as the representation of the masked faces. These are the ones that are actually dead, dead.
All Hydaelunie, and her group of ancients, did was shatter everything from 1 singular existance into 14(13?), so that life would have the chance to continue unimpeeded by the Source experiencing the Final Days. So, no one was technically killed by queen crazy, as much as they were splintered into multiple fragments with one fragment on each of the 14 (or 13/however many) shards. And then life from those fragments would be 'new' life.
And all of that occured because Hermes couldn't not into being emo for 5 minutes because muh existentialisms.
So the way the story goes is, Hermes created Metion and she ventured forth into the unknown to find the meaning of life - which she concluded was death, and entropy as all things decayed.
so Metion went crazy and decided all life has to end, and started the final days for the ancients, and no one could figure out what was causing it so they summoned Zodiark to protect them, the root of all corruption wanted to find another way so she sundered everything, and then magically the events of endwalker take place to put us the WoL in the path of direct opposition to stop the Final Days from occuring and to make it so that hyperpsycholyn could know what caused the Final Days, which somehow makes us 'worthy' and she could finally die by creating a time loop paradox that ensures life will always survive should the WoL fail.

at least until Pandeamonium, the laboritory out of time, is resolved and a special person involved in that story arc resolves the time loop paradox and will then act as the next Hydaelyn. (personally I think anyways)

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You're correct, thank you. I forget about the 7 successful rejoinings (or 8 if you count the now alternate timeline of Biggs the 3rd).

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well......
Time travel shenanigans makes this confusing.
But I'm not counting Biggs the 3rd although the intent was there.
Because if we count intent, we're gonna have to add a lot more than 7

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Originally Posted by dapperfaffer

No, thats basically it.

The ancients, the convocation and a majority of ancients, sacrificed themselves to summon/keep Zodiark summoned to stop the Final Days triggered by Metion. All the sacrificed Ancients 'souls' are represented by all the faces in the cutscene with Zodiark, and even Emet when he transforms into Hades, and shows them as the representation of the masked faces. These are the ones that are actually dead, dead.
All Hydaelunie, and her group of ancients, did was shatter everything from 1 singular existance into 14(13?), so that life would have the chance to continue unimpeeded by the Source experiencing the Final Days. So, no one was technically killed by queen crazy, as much as they were splintered into multiple fragments with one fragment on each of the 14 (or 13/however many) shards. And then life from those fragments would be 'new' life.
And all of that occured because Hermes couldn't not into being emo for 5 minutes because muh existentialisms.
So the way the story goes is, Hermes created Metion and she ventured forth into the unknown to find the meaning of life - which she concluded was death, and entropy as all things decayed.
so Metion went crazy and decided all life has to end, and started the final days for the ancients, and no one could figure out what was causing it so they summoned Zodiark to protect them, the root of all corruption wanted to find another way so she sundered everything, and then magically the events of endwalker take place to put us the WoL in the path of direct opposition to stop the Final Days from occuring and to make it so that hyperpsycholyn could know what caused the Final Days, which somehow makes us 'worthy' and she could finally die by creating a time loop paradox that ensures life will always survive should the WoL fail.

at least until Pandeamonium, the laboritory out of time, is resolved and a special person involved in that story arc resolves the time loop paradox and will then act as the next Hydaelyn. (personally I think anyways)

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and let's not forget that the sundering was also to give us a chance to actually defeating Meteion and actually dealing with the problem. Instead of what the Ascians decided to /couldn't do.

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Q: I am interested to know how unsundered Ascians such as Lahabrea, Elidibus and Emet-Selch avoided being kicked into 14 pieces by Hydaelyn

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A: As you think back to the text towards the end Emet-Selch did imply that Venat let him live unsundered. In fact Venat did intentionally leave a tiny floor in her Sundering attack - a crack that Emet-Selch can wiggle through. Sort of like…yes it was a powerful attack but intentionally chose to do it in this fashion. So we said this in the actual game as well which is when Hydaelyn did the attack, it was a really strong one. It was delivered at the limit of her power so she couldn’t really fine tune it. So as intentional as this was when she did that big massive light attack that sundered the world, she couldn’t guarantee that Emet-Selch would live and she was kind of making a gamble. In fact what happened was, at the time that Hydaelyn performed the sundering, Emet-Selch was with Lahabrea and Elidibus (the time he was already out of being Zodiark core so he’s a little bit different than his original but nevertheless he was there) so they ended up joining forces, and escaped to the rift without being Sundered. You may recall if you read Tales of the Shadows that Elidibus, when he came out of Zodiark he ended up losing some of his memories as well as some parts of himself and that’s sort of the point in Patch 5.3 and when he “dies” you sort of know that he lost a lot in the process as well just like Emet-Selch. So yeah, basically they worked together at that time and escaped being Sundered.

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She knew what would happen next. Thus, she enabled all that happened afterwards.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

She knew what would happen next. Thus, she enabled all that happened afterwards.

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They still did those acts of their own free will. So regardless of what you want to think they are not absolved due to her 'enablement'

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

They still did those acts of their own free will. So regardless of what you want to think they are not absolved due to her 'enablement'

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And she used her own free will by not telling people what was going on, paving the way for the destruction of all but a handful of ancients. Nothing about this strikes me as a hero, and to have to sit through hearing about how wonderful she was in 6.2 isn't going to make for a palatable experience for those of us who do not think highly of her actions.

It was her that started this. Nor are we asking for the Ascians to be "absolved" we want the game to acknowledge beyond a passing statement that what she did was wrong, and to stop propping her up as a benevolent goddess when she wasn't one.

For people who watched the island livestream: was there anything about weather and possible biomes? I know the map is pretty solidly green, but I can dream.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

For people who watched the island livestream: was there anything about weather and possible biomes? I know the map is pretty solidly green, but I can dream.

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Unfortunately this island is located somewhere tropical. It will have mostly sunny and rainy weather. The lack of biome choice is rather disappointing. I would've preferred a smaller and more customizable island than one that is locked to the tropical biome.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

They had the intent to destroy a part of their own people for the sake of summoning Zodiark. They did so.

After they did that, they had the intent to destroy a part of their own people to repair the damage to Etheirys. They did so.

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This is a disingenuous way to phrase it. It's been made very clear that the Ancients sacrificed themselves to summon Zodiark and that they did so willingly, the story never supports that they were forced nor brainwashed into it. Whether the Convocation could be still considered responsible for their sacrifice is an interesting question, but it's certainly not as clear cut as the way you say it.
Only the third sacrifice was clearly framed as killing other life forms without their consent, and this is not a coincidence that this is the one which sparked heavy debates among the Ancients society and forced Elidibus to come back as an Emissary.

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So why do people want to venerate the group that succeeded in 2 acts of genocide and were about to commit multiple genocides while demonizing the individual that stopped that massive wave of genocide

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I believe people (those of us who were disgusted by Venat's act) would have a much different reaction to the Sundering if it was established that Ancients agreed to it. All of this was done without their consent and a decision taken by (possibly, depending on how much she told her followers, and we know she wasn't really found of sharing) a single individual. The post EW live letter supports this interpretation.
So yes, this is not comparable.

And even if we accepted your notion that the willing sacrifice of the Ancients was an act of evil, you can't absolve Venat of responsability for it. After all, her entire 12k years plan needed Zodiark to work in the first place.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Unfortunately this island is located somewhere tropical. It will have mostly sunny and rainy weather. The lack of biome choice is rather disappointing. I would've preferred a smaller and more customizable island than one that is locked to the tropical biome.

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That is a shame. With all this ungodly heat happening I find myself wanting to afk in Coerthia..

Maybe some update will let us terraform - it is evergreen (huehuehuehue) content, after all. Foggy redwood forest dreams never die.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

And she used her own free will by not telling people what was going on, paving the way for the destruction of all but a handful of ancients. Nothing about this strikes me as a hero, and to have to sit through hearing about how wonderful she was in 6.2 isn't going to make for a palatable experience for those of us who do not think highly of her actions.

It was her that started this. Nor are we asking for the Ascians to be "absolved" we want the game to acknowledge beyond a passing statement that what she did was wrong, and to stop propping her up as a benevolent goddess when she wasn't one.

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Because it is all relativism, what you are effectively asking for, or at the very least advocating for with this sentiment is a very long history of indoctrination to effectively be annulled in a very short period of time. The world is vast so that isn't happening. They have already made it pretty clear through the story that it is no longer as simple as black and white and leaves it up to your own perception to determine who was right, and who was wrong. - The game doesn't need to tell you that.

We weren't exactly heading into Endwalker as "OOOO the big bad Zodiark" - This was practically tossed out the window courtesy of the lecture as provided by Emet-Selch in Rak'tika. The only basis for us going after him and subsequently viewing him as bad was just due to external factors (e.g., Zenos and Fandaniel wanting to suckle his power)

Edit: Just as I have said enablement from a third party factor is not an absolvent, otherwise ultimately the stick-pointing game would be, and should be put in the direction of Hermes.

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Nor am I asking for the Ascians to be "absolved" I want the game to acknowledge beyond a passing statement that what she did was wrong, and to stop propping her up as a benevolent goddess when she wasn't one.

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Well , the writers know what they are doing, and as I enjoyed the storyline as is, I disagree with your interpretation.

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Unfortunately this island is located somewhere tropical. It will have mostly sunny and rainy weather. The lack of biome choice is rather disappointing. I would've preferred a smaller and more customizable island than one that is locked to the tropical biome.

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What fun is there in a snowed in, frozen wasteland where your crops wither and die?

Really?

Sadly Hermes somehow get absolved of all of it due to the whole Venat didn't tell anyone part of all of this. Even though we don't have enough information about said choice. Regardless of not having said information about the choice they always paint it and insist that Venat didn't have doubts or didn't try to go with other plans or ideas.

And until such time that we gain more information there's no way to tell how married to the sundering plan Venat was. Course I'm surprised they haven't gone hard down the path of well if they knew they could have averted not only the final days but came up with a plan to defeat the Metiea. Screw and ignore the fact the Hermes would be a wild card that would be fully capable of trying to sabotage an informed (one reinformed) convocation.

Also welcome to the Lore section kupo. Gee I wonder why some voices in that section have been absent or won't touch it with a ten foot pole. Just watch out the for the philosophical rehashing of the rehashing of this "debate".

Back to what the thread is about. Who thinks the PuPu or the Loloprits are responsible for the multitude of stuck in the ground Hildibrands?

Pretty sure Devs mentioned multiple islands for future updates as this should be regularly updated from 6.2 forward, so various biomes could be a thing and likely well just brings materials on over.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Sadly Hermes somehow get absolved of all of it due to the whole Venat didn't tell anyone part of all of this. Even though we don't have enough information about said choice. Regardless of not having said information about the choice they always paint it and insist that Venat didn't have doubts or didn't try to go with other plans or ideas.

And until such time that we gain more information there's no way to tell how married to the sundering plan Venat was. Course I'm surprised they haven't gone hard down the path of well if they knew they could have averted not only the final days but came up with a plan to defeat the Metiea. Screw and ignore the fact the Hermes would be a wild card that would be fully capable of trying to sabotage an informed (one reinformed) convocation.

Also welcome to the Lore section kupo. Gee I wonder why some voices in that section have been absent if won't touch it with a ten foot pole. Just watch out the for the philosophical rehashing of the rehashing of this "debate".

Back to what the thread is about. Who thinks the PuPu or the Loloprits are responsible for the multitude of stuck in the ground Hildibrands?

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Nah, Hermes can catch this smoke too. Him and his bird children...

Also I'm going for the wildcard pick- We suplexed all the Hildibrands.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

What fun is there in a snowed in, frozen wasteland where your crops wither and die?

Really?

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Giant greenhouse that's heated by cerulean heaters. Course I wonder if it snowing would count as having them be watered as they did say that when it rains it would count as that. Now when will that apply to regular gardening Yoshida? I wouldn't have to touch some friends crops some days cause of all the rain it'd be doing where their houses are.

Us, Godbert, a joint effort or was it his mother? Still wouldn't explain how so many Hildibrand Heliodor Maximilion Manderville became many.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Giant greenhouse that's heated by cerulean heaters. Course I wonder if it snowing would count as having them be watered as they did say that when it rains it would count as that. Now when will that apply to regular gardening Yoshida? I wouldn't have to touch some friends crops some days cause of all the rain it'd be doing where their houses are.

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With how much rain Gridania seems to get, you'd never have to water your own crops again.

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Pretty sure Devs mentioned multiple islands for future updates as this should be regularly updated from 6.2 forward, so various biomes could be a thing and likely well just brings materials on over.

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And as it was shown a few pages back the slide only talks about updating the island. So do you have further proof with this multiple islands? Otherwise its probably misinformation or misinterpretation and could lead to disappointment because it makes way more sense that they will upgrade the current island we get with the next patch instead of just throwing more and more islands at us.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

And she used her own free will by not telling people what was going on, paving the way for the destruction of all but a handful of ancients. Nothing about this strikes me as a hero, and to have to sit through hearing about how wonderful she was in 6.2 isn't going to make for a palatable experience for those of us who do not think highly of her actions.

It was her that started this. Nor are we asking for the Ascians to be "absolved" we want the game to acknowledge beyond a passing statement that what she did was wrong, and to stop propping her up as a benevolent goddess when she wasn't one.

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She acknowledges she did terrible things. Since SE wrote this line from her, they are obviously aware of it.

But she also endured eras of time while preparing a way to reach Meteion and to create a means of escape from the Final Days, preserving the continued existence of her people's souls.

It's not a perfect thing. She did good things and bad things to achieve her aim of saving the star.

She provides her own explanation for why she can't tell anyone. Hermes could go crazy again and Emet-Selch wouldn't believe her when he didn't the first time, so she had to identify specific people that would believe her and use the information right.

Emet-Selch even admits to us that their ways would not have led them to Meteion, so it's his opinion that if Venat had told them it would not have caused them to arrive at Meteion. Their best solution would probably have still been to summon Zodiark, so nothing changes.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

She acknowledges she did terrible things. Since SE wrote this line from her, they are obviously aware of it.

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And then the game proceeded to paint her as a heroine in the Codex entry, and are now poised to refer back to us as her champion. I feel as though my character has been manipulated and deceived by Hydaelyn too much to consider himself her champion. We were supposed to not be the Warrior of Light anymore and just be an adventurer. What has become of that promise?

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

But she also endured eras of time while preparing a way to reach Meteion and to create a means of escape from the Final Days, preserving the continued existence of her people's souls.

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Perhaps if she had told the Convocation what was going on and had Hermes locked up before he could further sabotage everything, she may not have had to. In any case it wasn't her that preserved anyone's souls, that was the function of Zodiark whose summoners' souls weren't consumed by him like Hydaelyn did hers. Had the final sacrifice of plant and animal life come to fruition, they likely would've been able to escape their predicament.

Instead she sundered the planet and humanity went from the state of risking blasphemies spawning whenever they used magic, to risking turning into one for succumbing to despair. To classify her as a hero for doing such a thing is something I simply cannot wrap my head around.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

She provides her own explanation for why she can't tell anyone. Hermes could go crazy again and Emet-Selch wouldn't believe her when he didn't the first time, so she had to identify specific people that would believe her and use the information right.

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Her explanation was found wanting by enough people to generate discussions surrounding the topic that have carried on to this day. It was not well-written. The logic underlying her actions should have been handled with greater care so as to remove all doubt and ensure precise clarity as to why these things had to play out the way they did. This wasn't accomplished.

The echo existed in that era, so she was more than capable of proving herself true to anyone. Not believing her isn't a good enough explanation, not given what the game already showed us.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Emet-Selch even admits to us that their ways would not have led them to Meteion, so it's his opinion that if Venat had told them it would not have caused them to arrive at Meteion. Their best solution would probably have still been to summon Zodiark, so nothing changes.

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Summoning Zodiark and performing the necessary sacrifices to return the stability of creation magic and the lives lost in his original summoning seems to like a far better option than being left in the compromised state the Sundering left humanity in, with Venat's backup plan of sending them out in space without the protection of Zodiark almost assuredly putting them directly within Meteion's reach.

Do you see why people have taken issue with the way in which this story was constructed and the ways in which it attempts to justify its plot points? This experience has severely undermined people's confidence in future storytelling along with the many issues surrounding the treatment of:

Garlemald, now a republic left in runs.

Zenos, whose more compelling teases in Shadowbringers weren't followed up - and given this game's lack of permanent death for main cast members has his fans wondering why they were not afforded the same courtesy as fans of the Scions have been in terms of bringing them back.

The Ancients, of whom an inconsistent picture has been painted through a combination of conflicting visions, writing, and interpretations.

Now the Void, which many of are cautious about getting too invested in given the fact that the 6.2 trailer showed dawn breaking in its skies and the implications that the loss of this game's demon realm would have for its worldbuilding. Moving forward we would like to see in 6.2 and beyond less one-sided protagonist centric victories unless similar concessions are willing to be made for the antagonist faction as well, less of a focus on subverting expectations and generally being more clear as to what we should expect, and for the world to not be left in a lesser state as a result of our journey through it.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Because it is all relativism, what you are effectively asking for, or at the very least advocating for with this sentiment is a very long history of indoctrination to effectively be annulled in a very short period of time. The world is vast so that isn't happening. They have already made it pretty clear through the story that it is no longer as simple as black and white and leaves it up to your own perception to determine who was right, and who was wrong. - The game doesn't need to tell you that.

We weren't exactly heading into Endwalker as "OOOO the big bad Zodiark" - This was practically tossed out the window courtesy of the lecture as provided by Emet-Selch in Rak'tika. The only basis for us going after him and subsequently viewing him as bad was just due to external factors (e.g., Zenos and Fandaniel wanting to suckle his power)

Edit: Just as I have said enablement from a third party factor is not an absolvent, otherwise ultimately the stick-pointing game would be, and should be put in the direction of Hermes.

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None of this matters, it's all lazy excuses from Yoshida anyway. It's not moral relativism either, not when we the Warrior of Light are canonically writing the Unending Codex (Tataru tells us to begin writing a Journal so we won't forget things from now on, after which the Unending Codex starts gaining entries) which says Hydaelyn was the Will of the Star (when in reality she stole it from Zodiark before his ashes had even begun to cool) the entire time and is responsible for everything good about the Sundered world. Considering this, and the way the Omega quest ended on a Hydaelyn-positive message anyways (The motto of "FORGE AHEAD" being mouthpieced at us at the end, why was rando alien planet's recording aware of Hydaelyn's arc words anyway? More propaganda from the devs, becuz ofc) as well as Loporrits dancing on Zodiark's grave its hard NOT to think a vast majority of 6.2 is a metaphor for Yoshida's middle finger waving flagrantly in the face of any who cared even the slightest bit about the Ancients. We don't want a giant retcon of the lore, we just want some people in game to give a shit that Hydaelyn effectively erased an entire planet's worth of people. Instead, we get to cover it up.

I've been going over and reviewing some of the lines we heard from the Scions in Shadowbringers, and frankly if the Scions retained ANY of their previous characterization from the aforementioned expansion they should have had MAJOR issues with how Hydaelyn did things, but they don't. Ergo, they're Out of Character. Alphinaud's rumination on the erasing of history and the value of being remembered by one's loved ones, Y'shtola's rebuking and condemnation of Emet-Selch's mass murder and genocide, Thancred's confident declaration that he would NEVER accept an Ascian's assistance after all the suffering their kind has wrought. All of this flies completely in the face of the way they act in Endwalker, and their refusal to look at Hydaelyn through the same lens of looking glass. It's insulting to one's intelligence to think Yoshida thought we would not notice these discrepancies. He may as well have called us Autist Retards directly to our faces.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

For people who watched the island livestream: was there anything about weather and possible biomes? I know the map is pretty solidly green, but I can dream.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Unfortunately this island is located somewhere tropical. It will have mostly sunny and rainy weather. The lack of biome choice is rather disappointing. I would've preferred a smaller and more customizable island than one that is locked to the tropical biome.

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Not a feature to just quickly make, but I do hope they consider giving us some control- through mirage, creation magic, moogle magic, whatever nonsense needed to do it lol.

Would be cool to change the skybox, etc to like Elpis (floating island), or Azim Steppe, ETC. Depending on zone some changes to lighting and maybe a few tree swaps could go a long way to selling the idea. Something like a desert would be a lot harder, but perhaps still not impractical (replace ground texture, swap ..a lot.. more models).

Besides selecting a snow like 'skin' to your island there also might just be like a Christmas event or something and some part of your Island gets snow for a little while.

Few ways to do it, I agree it would be neat if we get some variation somehow- regardless of the technical physical location of the island.

Seasons on the island would be incredible, not going to lie.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Still, people have been taking a fictional story WAAAAYYYYY too seriously. Please step back a few minutes and root yourselves in reality. None of those characters ever existed. The choices they made about what to do and the consequences of those actions never happened. Nothing says you need to like the story told or any specific characters but getting yourselves worked up so much over it is not healthy.

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You didn't major in Literature, did you? :P

I don't think it's a dawn breaking. I think it's just God rays or in this case Moon beams. We had the same kind of thing happening in the 1st in each of the zones affected by a Lightwardend.

Getting to change the weather and environment on the Island Sanctuary would be awesome, and if its not an added feature now then hopefully its something they can add via some Sharlayan Aether Converter. Personally speaking I want my island to always be rainy!

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Originally Posted by SannaR

I don't think it's a dawn breaking. I think it's just God rays or in this case Moon beams. We had the same kind of thing happening in the 1st in each of the zones affected by a Lightwardend.

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Yeah it feels like jumping the gun to assume that is whats happening. I do not think we will 'restore' The Void any time soon. Perhaps start it on a road to recovery? But there will be too much that needs to be accounted for to restore it to what it once was, such as what will happen to Reapers and the Fiend we have made our pact with? I feel The Void arc is more a ‘get in and recuse dragon sis/see if it can be used to travel elsewhere’ hence why its taking up the post-patches and not is own expansion, as far as we are aware. It may also be setting up future antagonists for 7.0 and beyond. I could be completly wrong, but we shall see come 6.2!