I miss the old PvP.

FL hero has no idea what they're talking about, what's new

https://i.imgur.com/FSjAzgr.gif

I preferred it insofar as frontlines were concerned.

Don't really care about Feast, so if they kept the current model for it, fine.

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Originally Posted by Nova_Rox

Wait. What???

Have you even done Feast lately? AST is the go to class right now....

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I'll give Ast another go in feast I guess, but when I was playing WHM vs playing AST (and I used to be an AST main) I honestly found I could keep people alive and do more healing as a whm than as an ast (especially when I got the healing lillies thing down).

Maybe I am trying to play it too much like HW ast ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Maybe I am trying to play it too much like HW ast ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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For myself the "Problem" is to readjust every time i switch from pve into a pvp mode.

I find myself trying to use skills im used to have in PvE since i mostly play with muscle memory and dont look much on my Hotbars. It works out after 1 or 2 Games, but yeah... i just really missed the days when you could sneak around as a Ninja and pick of people thinking they can play solo-Hero.

nerf healers please, 18k damage in 3 seconds is healable, or buff dps moar

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Originally Posted by Mirch

nerf healers please, 18k damage in 3 seconds is healable, or buff dps moar

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A good Healer can outheal 4 bad (or even more) Dps players. Especially when they spam their Stuns, silences without brain. But its nearly impossible to kill a Healer 1v1 as a dps by now and that shouldnt be a thing.

Whats the chances or getting back 3.0 pvp skills for 5.0? Has anyone asked Yoshi, because at the current iteration, it isn't fun. Classes are missing so many utility spells to a point where it feels unplayable.

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Originally Posted by Ezikeo

Whats the chances or getting back 3.0 pvp skills for 5.0? Has anyone asked Yoshi, because at the current iteration, it isn't fun. Classes are missing so many utility spells to a point where it feels unplayable.

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Its also quite a change to think back and forth switching from PvP back to PvE. My muscle memory Fu..s with me every Time.

Well not sure if Im alone at this point, but here's to hopin they at least give us 3.0 pvpers something in 5.0 :( I thought Id grow over and eventually like SB's system but oh my god even after all this time I still dislike it

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Originally Posted by SummerScorcher

Well not sure if Im alone at this point, but here's to hopin they at least give us 3.0 pvpers something in 5.0 :( I thought Id grow over and eventually like SB's system but oh my god even after all this time I still dislike it

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I know the feeling man... i try the 4.X pvp every now and then, hoping i could somehow like it but no.. impossible. I kinda wish i would have started the game later so i wouldnt have to miss my most favourite Gamemode.

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Originally Posted by Nova_Rox

Whaaat? BRD has burst ready every 15 seconds now compared to the old style of waiting minutes to get an entire burst ready. I've always loved BRD in PvP, I also used to hate 4.x PvP, but it's not as bad as people say it is.

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You call this burst? Have you ever played BRD in PVP back in HW? That was burst. This now is just a joke compared to back then.

hw pvp good

sb pvp bad

upvotes to the left

thanks for coming to my ted talk

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Originally Posted by Ilan

You call this burst? Have you ever played BRD in PVP back in HW? That was burst. This now is just a joke compared to back then.

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I just miss SO MUCH how skill was visible back in the Day. As a good player you could kill 3 players on your own with any DPS or Tank while you got simply WRECKED when you are bad.

Even in a simple frontline game it was possible to see who is skilled and who is not. Now you cant really do anything with the 5 skills we have left. I remember how i cleaved 2 or 3 people solo as a warrior when Shatter just came out or how i kited 3 melees to oblivion as a BRD just because they didnt know how to play. And thats fine! When i started HW PvP after reaching 60 i ate dust aswell (i started with the release of Heavensward cause i simply didnt know this Game exists). I had to learn how pvp in FFXIV works, i did and then i reached top 100 when feast came out.

The old was just as bad as the new.

More Asymmetric Maps like Seal Rock please. Thank-You.

I miss having my full hotbar. I miss making macros to move around my hotbars for pvp, or having a full inventory because you needed a full set of different gear. I miss sitting with friends waiting for the 30 minute queue and talking about what the other two GC's did last match and what we should do now. I miss finally hitting rank 45 and getting to wear the sweet class specific armor despite being (and still being unfortunately) complete garbage at pvp. All of these aspects weren't always "fun" per se, but pvp as a whole was felt like it had real depth to me and I made a lot of friends along the way. Now it's something I queue for now and then and regret.
I mean this part for only frontlines since I don't do feast, but I miss when healers got interrupted by hits. I like that tanks had a job in keeping healers occupied or protecting their own and I miss having to use a braincell or two as a healer in frontlines. Unrelated but just a feeling I've been having lately.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

You call this burst? Have you ever played BRD in PVP back in HW? That was burst. This now is just a joke compared to back then.

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I've played since ARR, yes I've been around. Old bard could solo with its burst, but then you had to wait for your cooldowns to come back. Now it's constant burst, every 15 seconds at worst.

Do I miss 3.x PvP? Yes. Do I think 3.x PvP is better? Yes.

But what does that have to do with the fact that current burst is every 15 seconds, meanwhile previous it was a much stronger burst that took longer for CD's to come back up. With 4x SE wanted to make the mode faster paced, that's why bursts come out so often now.

If you die against players who repeatedly press one button in a frontline match(and nothing else), you will feel that it lacks depth and some sort of skillgap to make games more interesting than using a calculator in math class.
When they explained 4.0 PvP in the liveletter before the addon, the changes were welcomed by a lot as a first step to continue building on. Now we are at the end of the addon and it's still the same gameplay.

PvP needs more dynamic environment (I don't think current frontline maps are suited for this gameplay, the lack of critical dmg makes dmg very predictable/unsurprising)//new rival wings is actually better in that regard, but old content still exists too..

Customization(former pvp rank skills[cc missing on a lot of classes now], additionals, traits, gear/build is unimpactfull or removed and not classspecific enough)

Incentives (e. g. Feast rewards outside of top100 are not good enough, which leads to players not playing if they can't make top100).

So. If i understand that right we soon get more pvp Actions. Let us all hope that it changes pvp for the better and adds some "thrill" back into this mode. But TBH, at this point it cant get any worse... or can it?

I think my only major beefs with PvP right now are Seize not having an asymmetric layout and battle high only being rewarded on killing blows (As opposed to overall damage dealt to a player) as it makes the rate at which teams acquire it extremely inconsistent and does not necessarily reward the people who are putting in the most work/playing well.

I'm hoping 5.1 gives classes more utility options, like NIN having Doton as a means of slowing a team's advance through a chokepoint amd maybe just more stuff to discourage teams from moving around in a big murderball in general.

Need to make pvp real by letting every job use all there skills in it. Old pvp was way better at least dps could get heal skill. Be nice if they let machinist be able to use automaton queen in pvp and flamethrower. If every did pvp on Tera and Aion it was fun didn't have limited skills could use. You could use all your skills in pvp just like how you would fight normal monsters and bosses. That's how pvp should be. Not even sure why they thought they needed to change pvp from how it was to this dumb new style of pvp. At least give the jobs enough skills to fill up both hot bars. What is next only getting 3 skills to use in pvp.

Does it matter? Most of people can’t even PvP correct with current system at first place

Let's re-add all buttons to pvp so that the universe sized skill gap can return, which will drive 99% of all people away, promote unbalanced gameplay by default, difficulty to balance which will always be unhealthy from a competitive standpoint, create even more moral issues where FFXIV as a whole has a boatload of new players who might consider getting steamrolled as a personal attack of sorts, will forever think pvp is dead in this game, will bad mouth it forever, oh wait all the casuals who played 3.x pvp already do that to this day.



Objectively it's a terrible idea, competition > fun

Yes all buttons would be more fun, objectively it'd ruin everything and of pvp wasnt already an afterthought it would receive 0 content ever again because of the influx of negativity that would be reborn. What they're doing now is healthy progress that has been working, and that is a fact.

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Originally Posted by Crit

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Some good points, but mt biggest problem with the new "better" pvp is that when I play PvE, it feels like a completely different game. The new pvp has made me lose all interest in pve.

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Originally Posted by Crit

Let's re-add all buttons to pvp so that the universe sized skill gap can return, which will drive 99% of all people away, promote unbalanced gameplay by default, difficulty to balance which will always be unhealthy from a competitive standpoint, create even more moral issues where FFXIV as a whole has a boatload of new players who might consider getting steamrolled as a personal attack of sorts, will forever think pvp is dead in this game, will bad mouth it forever, oh wait all the casuals who played 3.x pvp already do that to this day.



Objectively it's a terrible idea, competition > fun

Yes all buttons would be more fun, objectively it'd ruin everything and of pvp wasnt already an afterthought it would receive 0 content ever again because of the influx of negativity that would be reborn. What they're doing now is healthy progress that has been working, and that is a fact.

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Forst of all: PvP gets badmouthed because of the traders, Rank/titlebuyers and cheaters these days. Players not willing to work at their skill complain all the time about something. In 3.X their excuse was to many skills and to hard to learn and whatever. Today people like to complain about being stomped into Earths molten core by top 100's (Season1-4) building premades. Oh and ofc Maelstrom since apparently all good players switched over there.

You might see it different.. but i rather wait 30 Minutes for Queue and then play against a Person that has the same love for Real PvP as me than playing against someone who does PvP to farm his tomes because its easy now.

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Originally Posted by Araxes

But TBH, at this point it cant get any worse... or can it?

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They proved me WRONG! 24 Mans gone, no longer allowed to queue with a full party. We are screwed.

There were a bunch of positive changes such as Battle High being rewarded from assists/reworked to accumulate more gradually and node spawns in Shatter/Seize being telgraphed, but removing the option for 24 players kinda negates all of that when it means queues are never going to pop outside of prime time.

I wonder what they'll do with the overhaul to skills they were talking about.... while I know it's probably a bad idea to get my hopes up, it does sound intriguing. Fingers crossed!!

What wish they change back is where you use to be able to solo kill healers and now takes 3 to take one down with there endless mp and heals. Or buff silence by giving it a longer affect time and shorter cool down.

I can't agree with you more brother! Bring the old pvp back!!! PS: No more 24 man games is the worst part of all... gotta love the 72 man zergfest only. Sucks because I play early morning so I don't get to PvP at all hardly anymore... YAY! GO SE!!! My wait time went from 10 - 20 min, to oh 350 min+? I can get a match or two in around 11am - 12:30 but I have to go at 1pm so that's it. Pretty freakin sad when I used to play 10 - 15 games a day even in the mornings. I hate this new pvp, it's great also when you die in half a second. This really blows and hard.

This causalization of the game is changing the game so much, it doesn't even feel the same as it used to in the past. I really haven't noticed a single benefit to myself apart from my crafters leveling up faster and I'd gladly trade that for the way the game used to play. They need to find a balance between hardcore, medcore, and casual, not completely switch the game to a kiddie play land for everyone. Dumbing down everything and removing some of the most fun elements of the game is really going to drive more people away than it attracts, I hope SE is listening to the players (lol yeah sure).

So with the Addition of more skills and 2 season-systems in Endwalker, we might get a bit closer to how it was before. I really hope it will be fun again.

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Originally Posted by Araxes

So with the Addition of more skills and 2 season-systems in Endwalker, we might get a bit closer to how it was before. I really hope it will be fun again.

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If we get more buttons is yet to be confirmed, but we do know that they will intend to axe role actions that are available to each job within a role (rampart, addle, feint etc.) and replace them with actions unique to each job, which will make the jobs feel less same-ish. This apparently includes Adrenaline Rush, meaning we can expect job unique ARs with varying effects. Overall I'm on board with the removal of role restrictions and shifting balance a tad further away from the trinity system (meaning less reliance / oppession from healers).

Also Battle Pass is dope and I hope the rewards will be unique enough to entice people to play. Glad they explained how you can get rewards you missed from previous Series Passes if you have enough currency, great way to deal with FOMO.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

I hope the rewards will be unique enough to entice people to play. Glad they explained how you can get rewards you missed from previous Series Passes

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Well personally i will not be playing it for rewards since none of them are going to mean anything, ill just be playing it cause i like pvp. I might be wrong here but i think that people will not be all to interested in the long run once they realize that everybody gets everything. Just look at the Legend titles, they were special once and people are ready to pay good money for it wich sadly turned them into a Meme. People WANT "special" stuff even if they claim otherwise.