Lackluster Graphics in FFXIV

/rolleyes
/moveon

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Originally Posted by Dubont

I actually saw this and couldn't wait to see it, but here it is, coming up on 8 months after this gear was "introduced" and we still haven't seen anything other than the usual copy+paste+recolor of the gear...aside from the NM gear which adds a small amount of flash, but it is nothing compared to what people have come to expect from a Final Fantasy game. I want the gear that was leaked, but I'm afraid it just isn't coming soon enough.

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Don't mean to be nitpicky, but it hasn't even been 5 months since the letter (Letter IV, 2/28/2011) that introduced them was released. (source)

That being said, it's obviously gear that's designed for specific jobs instead of classes, and with jobs being released after patch 1.20 (source), don't expect it to be released before September/October at the earliest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5oEEC6c_Mw&hd=1

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Originally Posted by nibelunc

My graphic configs are at max. and I never had lag or anything..

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1) You don't play it at max settings.

2) Lag is not low FPS.

Tempted to say troll elsewhere.


I keep saying it: The games runs like trash despite not having environmental shadows. (there's some models which do cast textures, but those are few and far between)

Shadows make the game for me. I'd use Ambient Occlusion if it was implemented properly because it creatures the illusion that the game has some shadowing, but, of course, only those with dual 590's and a 5GHz 995x can run ambient occlusion at comfortable framerates. (maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit..)

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Originally Posted by DAOWAce

1) I'd use Ambient Occlusion if it was implemented properly because it creatures the illusion that the game has some shadowing, but, of course, only those with dual 590's and a 5GHz 995x can run ambient occlusion at comfortable framerates. (maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit..)

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you aren't far off. I run at mid-high settings and the second that I turn on AO, I can press my "move forward" key...go grab a glass of kool-aid, come back and my dude MIGHT have moved...

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Originally Posted by VydarrTyr

Just wanted to point out that despite what's been said several times in this thread, water in FFXIV is reflective and pretty.

screenshot

screenshot

screenshot.

screenshot

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I agree. The water looks great in screenshots.

Then you see it in game.

And therein lies the issue. The graphics in FFXIV make for some gorgeous screenshots, but several little things add up to disappointment, because the engine is capable of more than it's being used for, and what little it is being used for is horribly optimized.

Edit: Hey, we necrobumped a Belgianrofl post!

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

Repeating textures are worse than in world of warcraft - again, most notably on Limsa Lominsa cliffs.

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I agree with your comment on repeating textures. The copy pasta is also really bad in The Black Shroud, especially those curving inclines that are all over the zone.

I don't really have a beef with the water graphics or the not-totally-naturalistic lighting effects.

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Originally Posted by Alyssa

I agree with your comment on repeating textures. The copy pasta is also really bad in The Black Shroud, especially those curving inclines that are all over the zone.

I don't really have a beef with the water graphics or the not-totally-naturalistic lighting effects.

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Repeating textures and repeating terrain are two entirely different things. All games use repeating textures, some just do it better than others. FFXIV's texture work is really good, at least for the high-resolution textures. The low-res ones that display on terrain at a distance can be really bad at times, but even it would be fine if they would simply push back the distance that it switches between the two and make it gradual, instead of the Line of Eyesore(TM) that currently runs 12m in front of you.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

you aren't far off. I run at mid-high settings and the second that I turn on AO, I can press my "move forward" key...go grab a glass of kool-aid, come back and my dude MIGHT have moved...

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did you try AO lately?
i dunno but i've tried it with my GTX460's in SLI and it was working fine.
with highest settings possible ( besides general drawing quality which shouldn't be above 8) i only lost 5-10 FPS outside towns, so i had a stable 50~55 FPS on the fields.

i know that months back AO would've cause extreme FPS lose, but ever since around may/june it was working normaly for me.
maybe due to new Nvidia driver, maybe SE did something.

either way, i still don't use it at all, the difference isn't that big.

I thing the game looks amazing, but I would like an option that would allow for Casscade Shadow maps. I feel like the lighting in the world is really flat because it lacks the contrast of shadows.

Bad things about FFXIV's graphics:

Water
Texture resolution at far distances
Spell and skill effects (just awful)
No shadows

Those are the main things.

I like this water:
http://tagn.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/evendim.jpg

The Lord of the Ring Online water is surely one of the best i ever seen.

Hmm, I do think the walls of LL should be less copy pasted.

Small sugestion about Taunt animation.
Taunt animation looks just the same as Provoke, or any other selfbuff. Whats about some moves like Dante did in DMC3?
Just as exemple
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQWaIC2rZWM

Lord of the rings isn't that great. Go watch an Archeage video or something.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Interesting. Where exactly are the shadows on that extremely simple water model that doesn't even feature realistic ripples?

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Might want to actually take a look at the water since the Cata upgrade since it's pretty damn realistic, and has realistic ripples when you move through it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnbAGt_cdKs

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Originally Posted by giftforce

Lord of the rings isn't that great. Go watch an Archeage video or something.

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Archeage looks nice, but LotRO has some of the best landscapes in any MMORPG I've played, which is amazing considering that the game is like 5-6 years old.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

Archeage looks nice, but LotRO has some of the best landscapes in any MMORPG I've played, which is amazing considering that the game is like 5-6 years old.

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We're talking about water.

i would like to see the terrain shadows sometimes soon, how hard can it be???

The problem lies with what many are saying, the lack of shadows on most objects, having every object cast a shadow in a somewhat realistic fashion can make most things look alot better.
When i was active this was the major graphical gripe i had, it was noticable that most objects placed in the world , Bridges, tree's and so forth, had only been dropped there without any real consideration, add shadows to these, and the world will instantantiously morph into something a bit more life-like.


On another note, i remember during Alpha the dev-team were stating the use of the same lighting method used in Crysis, anyone remember this?

First post for me, greetings from a former Lindblum citizen, my return shall come.

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Originally Posted by AugustHereux

The problem lies with what many are saying, the lack of shadows on most objects, having every object cast a shadow in a somewhat realistic fashion can make most things look alot better.
When i was active this was the major graphical gripe i had, it was noticable that most objects placed in the world , Bridges, tree's and so forth, had only been dropped there without any real consideration, add shadows to these, and the world will instantantiously morph into something a bit more life-like.


On another note, i remember during Alpha the dev-team were stating the use of the same lighting method used in Crysis, anyone remember this?

First post for me, greetings from a former Lindblum citizen, my return shall come.

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Greetings.

I don't find the environments to be particularly hindered for their lack of shadows. They still look the best of any MMO besides maybe some ArcheAge forests and Blad&Soul areas, and that's because the textures are really well done, and are placed so that they give an illusion of shadow even if it's not a real, dynamic effect of the lighting.

My biggest issue with FFXIV's graphics, I would have to say, is the sharp line between low and high res textures in the distance.

Then the spell effects (they are atrocoius).

Then water.

And then shadows.

But all are very important, don't get me wrong.

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Originally Posted by giftforce

Lord of the rings isn't that great. Go watch an Archeage video or something.

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I did. And it looks at bland as FFXIV's water.

LoTRO has some if the best landscapes, especially the water, out of any MMO right now.

Still it's sad that a game that's 5 years old has better water than FFXIV. Lol

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Originally Posted by giftforce

Bad things about FFXIV's graphics:
Texture resolution at far distances

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With my system (i7 with a GTX590 graphics card, kinda high end for most people), I can run it with Depth of Field turned on, and I increased oversampling on distant objects to "High" from "Standard". Distant textures look pretty good now.

The thing that bugs me the most is the "no shadows" thing. We cast shadows. The big easter egg balloon that was floating around during the egg hunt cast a shadow. But terrain does not cast a shadow! There's no shade under the trees! That irks me greatly (probably more than it should).

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

With my system (i7 with a GTX590 graphics card, kinda high end for most people), I can run it with Depth of Field turned on, and I increased oversampling on distant objects to "High" from "Standard". Distant textures look pretty good now.

The thing that bugs me the most is the "no shadows" thing. We cast shadows. The big easter egg balloon that was floating around during the egg hunt cast a shadow. But terrain does not cast a shadow! There's no shade under the trees! That irks me greatly (probably more than it should).

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For those non-believers, check out this video to see how much of a difference adding shadows can make. Also - what leaving a game engine up to a real developer can do for your game.

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Originally Posted by Aramyth

I did. And it looks at bland as FFXIV's water.

LoTRO has some if the best landscapes, especially the water, out of any MMO right now.

Still it's sad that a game that's 5 years old has better water than FFXIV. Lol

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... you mustn't have watched ...

As bad as FFXIV's water?

What is this?

I'm not even going to dignify this with a response. If you think Cryengine 3's water rendering is on par with that which is in FFXIV then there is no helping you.

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Originally Posted by giftforce

... you mustn't have watched ...

As bad as FFXIV's water?

What is this?

I'm not even going to dignify this with a response. If you think Cryengine 3's water rendering is on par with that which is in FFXIV then there is no helping you.

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I wouldn't go so far as to say on par with with FFXIV, but Cry3's water is nothing special. LotRO's is def better.

I would love if water breathed like it does in real life, by limsa beaches they attempted this, but it doesn't look have as real. My thing is is Crystal tools even a good engine for tons of npcs? Seems like they've been trying to push it, FFXIII had no npcs and I hated the game for that, and no exploration, it was really like "introduction to crystal tools SE 101" now I see FFXIII-Versus, and I see a little more exploration, npcs, and even a hack n slash battle system. Maybe its just not a good mmo engine but it can be pushed for rpgs

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

With my system (i7 with a GTX590 graphics card, kinda high end for most people), I can run it with Depth of Field turned on, and I increased oversampling on distant objects to "High" from "Standard". Distant textures look pretty good now.

The thing that bugs me the most is the "no shadows" thing. We cast shadows. The big easter egg balloon that was floating around during the egg hunt cast a shadow. But terrain does not cast a shadow! There's no shade under the trees! That irks me greatly (probably more than it should).

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That irks me too, this game is kinda half ass and lazy, maybe it was rushed.

Idk, I don't think the water looks as bad as some are saying. I have seen better but really have not noticed any of it looking bad at all;

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...sfishing-2.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...1305415651.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...01343540-1.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...02462830-2.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...04999937-1.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...1306550644.jpg

you know what?

P S 3 Limitation

yeah this water sure looks terrible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAH1T...layer_embedded

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Originally Posted by LuxLex

yeah this water sure looks terrible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAH1T...layer_embedded

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That's not how it normally looks. That also looks to be how WoW's fountains are, a 2-d overlay of cascading water, though I could be wrong about that part. We're talking about standing water which accounts for the majority of the water in game, not a fancy little waterfall that was specifically created for that area. It's like comparing the streams in XI to the waterfall in the jungle. Looks nothing alike.

You know you guys are asking for a very resource intensive object that would require the hardware specifications to be raised if it gets added. Reflections of character and environment, transparency to see the water bed, distortion from refraction all take significant video card resources to accomplish. I loved in EQ2 how you could really had a large amount of tools to adjust graphics settings. But hated that what worked well in one place, would make the game unplayable in another!

Example, you can have all the fancy graphics in the world especially on water. You will still have great FPS in Thanalan, but when you go to La Nosca your FPS will tank and become nearly unplayable (for lower end systems) once you look at the water!

Thats great fun right? So SE really needs to give us better control over the graphics quality.

And While I liked the insane control over the graphics quality in EQ2. I hated that it still needed to be adjusted based on the environment or in densly populated areas like dungeons or raids.

What works well when playing solo never works well when in a party. There is much more going on, all with high detail characters like yourself.

So I think it would be nice if there was in game controls that would adjust the graphics to suit the environment. Such as, indoors, outdoors, cities and parties. All of these have unique graphics settings to be adjusted to give the player the best play experience. This is needed for PC's with lower system settings. It would allow more ppl to play and not be excluded because their PC is not up to snuff.

but I suppose PS3 is a valid alternative. Still I like to tinker on my PC and this would be a very good tool to have!

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Originally Posted by LuxLex

yeah this water sure looks terrible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAH1T...layer_embedded

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Yeah, that's fine, but the water flowing through streams and in the seas do not look that good.

But yeah, the fountains look great. I'm also of the opinion that rain looks pretty awesome in this game, but I know there are many that do not share my opinion on that, either.

I think the game looks incredible for a game that has to be able to run well on a PS3.

It's not Crysis, but it's up there.

Graphics are fine, people need to stop nitpicking at things that don't matter. Shadows can't even be baked in like most games would have, because of the day/night time, the light source moves. There's just no real way of doing it. without upping the recommended specs on the box, which BTW are already on shelves, so deal with it. >.>

I will stick with my previous statement, that giving objects the property to cast shadows would improve the all around visual quality, and even though this might be founded in nothing, wouldnt superimposing shadows on everything be quite easy from a developer perspective?

Might be naiv to think so i suppose, on another note, alot of people are mentioning the "bad" texture filtering, anyone tried to force AF through the Nvidia controlpanel/Equivalent? That should theoreticly get rid of the issue.

This is an important discussion which needs to be addressed.