Eternal Bond - Standard Plan and Gold Plan

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Originally Posted by Drew_Moneroth

If you want to know what a pay wall truly is then look at F2P games in general. Some give you the game right out the bat while others (looking at you light saber game) actually make you pay to even enter locations or play a PvP match more then once a day. Honestly, if we are paying a subscription, why not complain about the price of expansion packs? The argument fits, so why not go after Heavensfall for being a pay wall in regards to the new class? It really baffles me anyone can blow up over something like this (ironic considering I am trying to do the same on the opposite side, spoilers) when you are not losing anything.

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Expansion packs are ALOT different, as it adds basically a whole new game on top of the old. With new Music/Areas/Gear/Content/New Story and all that. There is a reason we need to pay for an Expansion ( like I said it's basically a new game)

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Originally Posted by Drew_Moneroth

If you want to know what a pay wall truly is then look at F2P games in general. Some give you the game right out the bat while others (looking at you light saber game) actually make you pay to even enter locations or play a PvP match more then once a day. Honestly, if we are paying a subscription, why not complain about the price of expansion packs? The argument fits, so why not go after Heavensfall for being a pay wall in regards to the new class? It really baffles me anyone can blow up over something like this (ironic considering I am trying to do the same on the opposite side, spoilers) when you are not losing anything.

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Look it's all been argued before in other threads. I know you like Final Fantasy and this game thus you feel motivated to defend it with mental gymnastics.

The bottom line is, if SE wants to monetize the game they're free to do so as a company. They should at least state it clearly and well in advance, not hype features for a year and then announce the monetized part of it later. They should announce they're monetizing it at the same time they start announcing that feature, months before it's implemented. Maybe not mention the exact prices because sure plans change, but a simple "we are going to charge for a certain part of this feature" would suffice.

People will respect them more for it.

Anyone on Sargatanas want to marry me? I want the mount mostly.

When the store came out with the Odin mount, I saw most of the replies dealt not being able to acquire it in game. While I understand the issue (I know people hate me for having a 1.0 gobbue), it does not prevent you from anything except having Odin's horse (there is barding for your chocobo). Then you have the comments about people upset over those select few who stand in Mor Dhona showing off their minions from ventures, gear from Final Coil or the pets and mounts from the cash store. At this point in this, especially because of the fact we know nothing about the silver and gold status, I am starting to believe this is the tired argument of those who have over those who want for the purpose of flaunting. We are human beings, we enjoy having the ability to show off our achievements and accomplishments. This is a weird turn, but many games before have dealt with this exact issue: those wishing to prevent someone from flaunting something they really don't want.

You have completionist who simply get everything for the sake of having it. You have people who go day and night for a title (Insane in the Membrane achievement in WoW was my crowning flaunt) to be unique and out of the normal. You then have the normal player who wants something, gets it, then later moves on to the new thing. New content will always promote the issue of envy and that has always been the case from those wanting attention to those tired of hearing about it. I want to know exactly what the plans are just so people can put their silly debates to rest, but it won't stop. Once the next advancement in content comes out people will complain about that, or even about the expansion making all the hard work made in 2.0 void. Eternal Bonding is content that will not fade away, unlike Coil which will be useless once the expansion comes out. Instead of worrying about the items you probably won't use to begin with, look at what you have and the content you will have.

Square Enix is getting heat for something World of Warcraft does on a major scale and Star Wars the Old Republic abuses by actually illustration pay walls done wrong. The idea of cash grabs and money sinks into the Fan Festival and these items really make me want to punch a moogle (drop my kingly whisker already!). As a legacy member, I was around when the company did something that to this day still amazes me. While in financial instability they turned the game free to play when they really couldn't afford too as a sign of good faith.

A Realm Reborn, the fact it exists alone, clearly portrayed their desire to give us the game we wanted (also the fact they are a company that needs to make money, but realize they could have done what most companies do and abandon projects or left it the mess it was). They have worked tirelessly to provide content and work past that to fix content by listening to the community. I have yet to really see any other MMO present the type of fan-requested feedback or transparency. (still not complete, but as I mentioned yesterday we saw 2.38 hit us when they announced it too early). This team, Shiva bless them, has demonstrated the type of respectable practices most MMO developers would dream of. I had a VIP Ticket to Vegas and was forced to miss it. 200 dollars and the trip expenses down the tube, but do I feel I was ripped off when they didn't offer a refund? Do you get a refund when you hate a movie you saw or when you missed a concert? Most of the time, no.

Dude you don't need to reply to yourself several times. At least wait for someone to reply to you. Or post that you are going to edit and then put everything into the edit.

This all boils down to three points:

1. We do not have the facts to back up anything, except the fact we have to register, complete quests and get through the eternal bond ceremony without punching the best friend. We are getting the ceremony. Be grateful you don't have to pay to do it.

2. Using overblown exaggerations as fact (as hard as some people have tried doing so) creates more issues and potentially hurts the chances of the development team relaying the information without worrying about past overblown exaggerations (endless cycle)

3. This team has sacrificed greatly to meet half-way with quality of life issues, content and to keep you informed off issues (latest example was their handling of the DDoS issues). Please, do not let emotions blind there past efforts for something they have not done.

Most of this might have been unneeded, but I cannot stress the importance of giving this team the benefit of the doubt. I am not a white knight, nor am I saboteur, but I believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt after doing the same for us. Trust in them. They will make mistakes, but they have proven they are willing to fix them. Try to wait before burning them at the stake.

P.S. This would have been one post, but the limit was 1000 characters. I won't be replying. There is no need. You either accept what I said or not. I don't want to change minds, just provide another opinion to what has been mostly a one sided debate over exaggerations. Now if you excuse me, I have a ceremony to prepare for.

if you EDIT your own comment you can get past the character limit.

Having premium versions of in-game content is certainly worrying for me. I would really like them to release more info. But frankly, for everyone who supports this because it's "not p2w", do you realise how many doors it opens?

Premium versions of housing? And who knows what else at the Gold Saucer....

But there will still be people who say it's ok, because it's "not p2w". :/

I hope they are seeing the forum responses and reconsidering how they are going to implement it.

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Originally Posted by seida

Having premium versions of in-game content is certainly worrying for me. I would really like them to release more info. But frankly, for everyone who supports this because it's "not p2w", do you realise how many doors it opens?

Premium versions of housing? And who knows what else at the Gold Saucer....

But there will still be people who say it's ok, because it's "not p2w". :/

I hope they are seeing the forum responses and reconsidering how they are going to implement it.

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Nope since it's mostly NA crying about it so i can't see SE reconsidering anything but id still like to see anything saying yes this will in fact be for the cash shop :P at this point we will have to wait till DEC 8th and hope the real notes come out fast

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Originally Posted by Mogi

Nope since it's mostly NA crying about it so i can't see SE reconsidering anything but id still like to see anything saying yes this will in fact be for the cash shop :P at this point we will have to wait till DEC 8th and hope the real notes come out fast

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Actually no, there is a thread in the jp general discussion with people voicing their concerns.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

Skimming over the Japanese General Discussion, most people do not seem fussed about the cash shop at all. Their thread about the cash shop degenerated into people talking about how cool Sleipnir is and how they want to see stuff like Cloud's bike and beast tribe cosplay available and hoping for minion sets instead of just having them available individually. There are people who don't like it, but it tends to be more of a "aww I was hoping it would be free but oh well" or "Sleipnir is kind of expensive" sort of thing.

The one thread about the Eternal Bond system on the most recent two pages is people asking questions about it, like whether you'll be able to invite friends from other servers. No mention about the different plans or money or anything of that sort whatsoever.

EDIT: Going back a little further, there is one thread with people who are upset over the fact that there will be paid plans, but that's it. All of the outcry is contained in that single thread. 99% of General Discussion at the moment is about things like favorite NPCs, a fanart contest, the Starlight Celebration, and changes and improvements people want to see in Heavensward.

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When I asked one of my friends (who's way more into Japanese culture then I could ever be) why she thinks SE didn't go the gil route, she explained to me that the Japanese actually seem to prefer the cash shop approach. Her explanation to me was that the people who buy the cash shop stuff are the same people that will spend $130 on a figurine without blinking an eye, and there's a lot of those people there lol.

So yeah, it's mainly the English forums that are making the most kicking and screaming (big surprise there...not!). Also, we really could learn a lesson from the Japanese forums and keep all of our subjects contained into one topic for each.

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Originally Posted by Roris

The bottom line is, if SE wants to monetize the game they're free to do so as a company. They should at least state it clearly and well in advance, not hype features for a year and then announce the monetized part of it later. They should announce they're monetizing it at the same time they start announcing that feature, months before it's implemented. Maybe not mention the exact prices because sure plans change, but a simple "we are going to charge for a certain part of this feature" would suffice.

People will respect them more for it.

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Exactly. They dropped this last minute thinking they could somehow.. meh, it was a bad decision. It makes the last 6 or so months a deception on their part. If we'd have been told way back when, we'd all have time to come to grips and decide on just what we're personally going to do.

They really need to confess their plans for Golden Saucer, so people don't waste their time hoping. If they remain silent, they leave us with the impression that they're going to monetize everything they can at the last minute.

If you think there are no paid advantages or paywalls in this game, You Have Not Been Paying Attention.

Arguing that SE is a greedy corporate devil and one should expect them to behave this way is not a legitimate mode of thought. You are not a corporation, you are a consumer, YOU allow them to behave this way by rolling over like you suggest everyone do.

You're the problem. The more you let an entity treat you like garbage, the more you try to influence others to put up with the same treatment, the more you reinforce that behavior as acceptable.

Consumers are the last line of defense. Speaking out is a good thing.

You lot are overreacting way too much. Take off the tinfoil hats alright? It's not Pay2Win, it's not 'greedy', it's not 'corrupt'.

First of all, Square -needs- money, they are a company and FFXIV 1.0 took a major hit in their banks so for anyways saying that they don't need the money should just zip it up. This isn't Blizzard rolling in billions of dollars and doing hardly anything with it.

Second of all, WoW has a cash shop. I know we're NOT WoW but P2P games also have Cash shop for COSMETICS and OPTIONAL SERVICES.

Third of all, You lot are crying about the mount+minion+dress choices not the wedding itself since the wedding part IS free. Riddle me this, to get the only 2 seater mount currently what do you have to do? Can you get it with normal Gil? Can you craft? Oh. . .what's that? A no? You need to refer a person and they need to pay for 3 months? Oh you don't say. Point is right there. Square is doing this to limit the amount of people doing false marriages to get a free 2 seater mount that's ALREADY rare as it is. It's a vanity item nothing less and nothing more. Your gameplay won't change if you don't have a minion/mount/better dress for the wedding.

Funny how the JP forums are calm yet everyone here has a tinfoil, pitchfork, and crazy theories spouting out all over the place because Square isn't making a rare mount free for all, lol. As for the people saying that they didn't communicate . . .what? Is the wedding system out yet? UH NO. This is all pre-release information. Them not saying anything until they drop the patch and people find out for themselves is what I'll call hiding information but they clearly said it multiple times considering I read it in reddit a while ago that there will be pay tiers [ the original comment had 3 tiers ]. Chill the heck out overblowing something that's not even affecting the gameplay and is pure cosmetic. At least we're getting a wedding system, what other MMOs do that in modern times.

Wait.. The premium version has a new hairstyle aswell?

I hope this is not a standard where we see cash shop exclusive hairstyles.

Funny how the only accounts of this issue on the JP forums come from cash shop supporters, funny how those same kinds of people were saying "lol just because it got posted on the JP forums doesn't make it more valid" when they were even more vocal about the housing prices debacle over there, to try and downplay the housing bait and switch over here.

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Originally Posted by Mikikoto

You lot are overreacting way too much. Take off the tinfoil hats alright? It's not Pay2Win, it's not 'greedy', it's not 'corrupt'.

First of all, Square -needs- money.

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People that defend will be the same people that will make FFXIV in the future. What You support, is what you will get back. Once the cash shop gets to the point where it's out of control, don't cry about it, because the people that supported it made it this way.

I am just throwing that out there for future reference. I am (and still am) a SE Fan majorly, I was fine with the Cash Shop too at first, The more I see Cosmetics ( or whatever they put in the game that CAN be put in the game for free) get put into the CS, The more it's turning me off. I like to "earn" stuff in the game. If I want that shiny new outfit, I would like to get it in-game. If they would just make all stuff available in-game with the option to buy it if you don't wanna work for it, then I would be okay with that.

I want that shiny outfit so bad that I am (emotionally) forced to buy it because it's something I really want for my character. However, I have no other options to get it outside of Spending RL money.

"Don't buy it!" "But I really want it!" "Sucks to be you then!"

That is my thoughts when I really want something from the CS ( that should be in-game) but can't. As a customer to SE, I have a right to be upset at this change ( and I don't get upset often at SE).

Shotgun wedding with Elvis-impersonating pastor in Las Vegas = standard plan
Traditional (and expensive) wedding in a grand cathedral, superb catering service, three-tiered cake & paid serenade: gold plan

...Sounds like real life to me.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Funny how the only accounts of this issue on the JP forums come from cash shop supporters, funny how those same kinds of people were saying "lol just because it got posted on the JP forums doesn't make it more valid" when they were even more vocal about the housing prices debacle over there, to try and downplay the housing bait and switch over here.

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Eh, any moderate to huge controversial topic will eventually have the question asked, "So what do the Japanese forums think about this?" since it's not a real secret that SE is willing to listen to their home playerbase first and foremost. I really wasn't paying too much attention during the whole personal housing debacle, but I know there was a lot more of the "Even the Japanese are raising hell, you KNOW you fudged up this time SE!" than "all because the Japanese are complaining doesn't mean it's an issue" type comments.

After reading all this fun arguing about whether it's fair or unfair I have to say one thing on the whole topic. First off, YES this is NOT FFXI before I get yelled at about it but as an example do any of us really even know that this is in fact going to cost money? Yes they said it will have a "price" BUT when they added it in FFXI it had a "price" but the price was gil. You signed up YES on a website first, mogstation in this case, had to have a chaperon at which you gave the money to the chaperon at the time of the wedding, and the chaperon gave the money to the representative, in this case I would assume the starting ceremony NPC. So jumping to the conclusion that it cost RL money is a horrible thing to jump to since there is a way they could easily make it cost gil, and you just have to sign up on the website/mogstation to start the whole process. You could still have to "pay" a price for the Gold plan but yet again be the case of trading the amount to an NPC for "paying" for it.

Now, on the other side of things, IF this does cost money then yes this is a horrible and poor idea on SE's side. Yet again I KNOW it is not FFXI but seriously why do this, when in FFXI there was no "plans" you had the option to Craft your gear, so if you did not want to pay the extra for the wedding dress, and the tux you could save up and have someone craft them for you, it was a great way to have your lovers name on the dress, or on your tux. Then you had your own meaningful item for the day, OR if you could not get it through crafting you could pay the extra gil to be given the dress and tux on your special day. There were no plans that seperated special things, it was ONE plan you got EVERYTHING in that one plan and had the options on the side to pay for the extra things, using GIL not real money.

My opinion on all this? Why can't they just make the best of both worlds, get rid of the stupid "plans" and just add a damn Wedding shop somewhere, with the starting NPC in there that you have to trade your stuff to for the wedding, and be able to go to the shop NPC and BUY the extra stuff with gil ONLY IF YOU WANT TO. If you want the cake? Buy it from the planner and it adds to your "account" in a sense for when the day happens. You want the mount? can't pay the gil right now? OK! Buy it later from the NPC while wearing your ring and TADA you have it! You don't want to pay for the wedding dress? OK! Give people the options to craft it and PUT their name on it for their loved ones, OR maybe it could be a wedding gift from your maid of honor, she/he could MAKE you the dress.

Seriously there are options here, and that also means there could be the option that it all cost Gil, just cause it "costs" something doesn't mean it won't cost gil just like FFXI did. Just cause we have to go through Mogstation, doesn't mean they couldn't make you just have to sign up for the "plan" and then have to trade the money to the NPC for setting the date. Stop jumping to conclusions when you don't have all the info, BUT given if it does cost money then yes this is poor planning on SE's part cause when you compare it to how they did it in FFXI nothing cost RL money. Something that is suppose to be a fun interactive thing they are adding for "friends" or "lovers" to enjoy I don't think would be stuck behind a paywall so to say. Given I could be proven wrong but it would be poor business to do this to the players, now costing a LOT of gil? This I can see, hopefully it won't be so outrageous like housing prices, but still who knows. That is just my opinion on things, do I think just cause it is on mogstation that means real money, no, could it mean that yes.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Funny how the only accounts of this issue on the JP forums come from cash shop supporters, funny how those same kinds of people were saying "lol just because it got posted on the JP forums doesn't make it more valid" when they were even more vocal about the housing prices debacle over there, to try and downplay the housing bait and switch over here.

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I'd be happy to take a photo of my JLPT N2 certificate, but you'd probably accuse me of faking that too.

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Originally Posted by Anatha

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Don't keep the tinfoil on for too long. Considering I can just drop FFXIV -if- it truly gets Pay2Win in a heartbeat and go to any other MMO in a market then no. I -know- when a company is truly fucking people over [Archeage anyone?] and this isn't even remotely near anything like $70+ for EvE's cosmetics that made the population riot. The wedding system is something that can be easily abused for an easy rare mount.


Do I agree that the dresses, hairstyles, anything outside the mount should be locked? No but the MOUNT is supposed to be a vanity which the ORIGINAL already INVOLVES IRL money to begin with. I can still raid, I can still get married, I can still get my housing so I'm still getting involved in the game as it is.

People keep bringing up FFXI, THIS IS NOT FFXI. Yoshi has 20 years of MMO Gaming. At least let SE state the entire system in detail and what the prices are going to be it could be a large amount of gil or IRL if you don't want to spend Gil for all we know.

PS: That picture is rather disgusting but hey now we know what your fetishes are.

EDIT: https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/game/wow

OH MAN WOW IS NOW PAY2WIN GAIZ!

It's supposed to be abhorrent and disturbing, which is why I said "This is what you're letting them do to you", ie. treating you in a fashion one might find appropriate for garbage.

And nice try to divert from the true matter at hand by focusing on single aspects or on an entirely off topic subject altogether.

You've posted twice and the entirety of your post history is you bending over for someone who isn't going to love you.

Uh, just to add to the jp forum stuff, one of the recent threads about it is called "charging to for contents: to what extent will you tolerate it?" OP talks about eternal bond, gives examples of other things that might happen, says they feel very uneasy about it. OP has 70 likes. YES jp players are better at keeping topic to one thread, and much like the western forums, some people like the cash shop. But there are PLENTY of jp players who are not very happy about it.

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Originally Posted by Anatha

It's supposed to be abhorrent and disturbing, which is why I said "This is what you're letting them do to you", ie. treating you in a fashion one might find appropriate for garbage.

And nice try to divert from the true matter at hand by focusing on single aspects or on an entirely off topic subject altogether.

You've posted twice and the entirety of your post history is you bending over for someone who isn't going to love you.

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No, the entirety of my post history is telling you guys to calm the hell down until we get MORE solid information before grabbing pitchforks and torches. We don't know if there will be a Gil equivalent, we don't know how much it is for plat, everything on the topic is pure assumption. I pick up and drop MMOs rather easily so saying I'm bending over for anyone is rather moot since if FFXIV IS going to entire abused cash shop route then I can just as easily take my playtime to another MMO and give them my money. The only reason I support the mount being paid is because the original mount you have to pay IRL money for to begin with in the first place which I'm going to assume is only the plat since it's 3 tiers. [Free, Gil=Gold, Plat=IRL Money for mount] I do not have solid information neither does anyone else here except SE so I'm just going to wait until they release a post detailing WHAT they are doing before I say "Hey, that's fucked up." There's always a extent to what you can bring a cash shop to, something I agree with but like I said this is SE. Voice your opinions, I'm postive they will listen but at least let them have a chance to respond before going around saying "THEY ARE TREATING US LIKE GARBAGE YAR YAR YAR".

Ugh more micro-transaction stuff. Players who support micro-transaction is like people who pay for things that are free.

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Originally Posted by Mikikoto

No, the entirety of my post history is telling you guys to calm the hell down until we get MORE solid information before grabbing pitchforks and torches. We don't know if there will be a Gil equivalent, we don't know how much it is for plat, everything on the topic is pure assumption. I pick up and drop MMOs rather easily so saying I'm bending over for anyone is rather moot since if FFXIV IS going to entire abused cash shop route then I can just as easily take my playtime to another MMO and give them my money. The only reason I support the mount being paid is because the original mount you have to pay IRL money for to begin with in the first place which I'm going to assume is only the plat since it's 3 tiers. [Free, Gil=Gold, Plat=IRL Money for mount] I do not have solid information neither does anyone else here except SE so I'm just going to wait until they release a post detailing WHAT they are doing before I say "Hey, that's fucked up." There's always a extent to what you can bring a cash shop to, something I agree with but like I said this is SE. Voice your opinions, I'm postive they will listen but at least let them have a chance to respond before going around saying "THEY ARE TREATING US LIKE GARBAGE YAR YAR YAR".

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First, plans were laid out in the live letter. Gold = 1000 yen plat = 2000. Second, when you wait till its in the game, it's already too late... For evidence see nearly every mmo ever made. Third, SE has had a week to respond, and have responded to other topics in that time.

I wont be suprised if we see special outfits during events that are only obtainable via cash shop or new hair and eye colours. I understand SE wants to make money and like majority I too, support them when they sell stuff like cosmetics, but a different wedding package that has mounts, outfits and new hairstyle is insane.

The wedding itself and outfits is oke, but the mount and hairstyle should be obtained for free or via a event/token system.

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Originally Posted by Taliph

First, plans were laid out in the live letter. Gold = 1000 yen plat = 2000. Second, when you wait till its in the game, it's already too late... For evidence see nearly every mmo ever made. Third, SE has had a week to respond, and have responded to other topics in that time.

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Do you have source for that? I don't recall any specific prices being mentioned.

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Originally Posted by seida

Do you have source for that? I don't recall any specific prices being mentioned.

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The most recent live letter, as I stated in my post. A few min after they introduced the plans.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

what it will be after?
- if you want increase the number of furniture in your house, pay more!
- if you want more space in the armory system, pay more!
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I would buy that. Genius idea. One of the reasons behind the limit on housing space is server issues. If everyone could put 400 items into their mansions, they'd have to cut the number of mansions. Making people pay for additional space means not everyone would have the increased server load AND they'd have more money to support it.

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Originally Posted by Taliph

First, plans were laid out in the live letter. Gold = 1000 yen plat = 2000. Second, when you wait till its in the game, it's already too late... For evidence see nearly every mmo ever made. Third, SE has had a week to respond, and have responded to other topics in that time.

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I've never seen them actually say the prices and respond to topics. Source please.

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Originally Posted by SekhmetM

I've never seen them actually say the prices and respond to topics. Source please.

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He already stated his source. Twice. The Live Letter. If you can't understand Japanese, though, it's probably nothing you can just go check for yourself.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

He already stated his source. Twice. The Live Letter. If you can't understand Japanese, though, it's probably nothing you can just go check for yourself.

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Can understand Japanese, couldn't find the live letter. Providing a link isn't that hard, is it?

Checked the jp ffxiv wiki, saw the differences in plans. Have they not yet said what's different between gold and platinum? They seem to provide the same benefits (mount, minion, dyeable dress, hairstyle)

If it's a hairstyle you get to keep and use outside the wedding, kind of annoyed it's locked inside eternal bond :(

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Originally Posted by seida

Can understand Japanese, couldn't find the live letter. Providing a link isn't that hard, is it?

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Here you go, because, indeed, using google and providing a link for you isn't hard. Apparently easier than it seems to be for you to do it yourself, anyway. http://www.twitch.tv/finalfantasyxiv/b/593879164

I still find it amusing no matter how many times I visit these forums, that people are demanding extra optional fluff to be made free as though SE owes them a favour. Self entitlement at its peak.