Who is gonna raid now with the iLvl 110 gear handed to people??

TBH, everytime I read "raider", I feel the word is big but the action is small actually, and it only refer to playing the last dungeon of this game^^;

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

TBH, everytime I read "raider", I feel the word is big but the action is small actually, and it only refer to playing the last dungeon of this game^^;

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People like to apply their own definition to the term. Traditionally, by MMORPG standards, it just signified anyone that did endgame content that involved more people than typically needed. Meaning if the norm was solo/duo/trio/etc, the "raid" would signify needing any amount more than that. Eventually it came to also imply a specific type of raid content being done in order to classify yourself as a "raider". It's the snowflake mentality at play. It did originally have a lot of meaning to it due to the exclusive nature that raids had. These days, the term is so generic that people are clinging to it by applying more criteria for it, just to stand out from the typical norm.

Okay, someone point me to where the ilvl 110 gear hand outs are. I could totally go for some instant gratification right about now. :p

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Okay, someone point me to where the ilvl 110 gear hand outs are. I could totally go for some instant gratification right about now. :p

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There aren't any handouts. Raiders just getting upset because others have access to their precious gears outside of Coil. Must be bad for their "selling carries" business...lol.

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Originally Posted by Black91CRX

There aren't any handouts. Raiders just getting upset because others have access to their precious gears outside of Coil. Must be bad for their "selling carries" business...lol.

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Bad and/or unfortunate players can't even win Twintania with i110. I doubt it affects selling business.

Btw, the iconic and exclusive gear for Cob2 is the HA gears,
I really don't undersatnd why some people would concern the multi-methods upgrade of SOL ^^;

Please don't say something very naive like you don't need X if you don't do Y. ^^;
As everyone still need X even Y doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

Btw, the iconic and exclusive gear for Cob2 is the HA gears,
I really don't undersatnd why some people would concern the multi-methods upgrade of SOL ^^;

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Well, this is the issue. It's been said in this thread many times but since it is kind of long and people don't like reading a too much; Sands and Oils of Time are restriction in the two end-game raid type dungeons. Those being Casual Tower 2, Syrcus Tower, and the Second Coil of Bahamut. They both have 1 week lockout. To remain internally consistent, it should follow that obtaining Sands and Oils of Time from Allied Seals should also be 1 week lockout as to gate the progression so that you can get 2~4 sands a week depending on how far one has progressed in Second Coil.

Personally, I abused the basically free for all sand time which benefits many players who require more soldiery pieces than high allagan for best in slot. But at the same time, I didn't even need it because I had cleared turn 4 before getting all the sands and oils for full i110. So previously I had the stance that casuals shouldn't get i110 but by mulling it over, it doesn't matter if they get i110, they still (mostly) can't beat current end-game content and will wait until it is nerfed in the next patch to tackle it. The problem is still that it's unrestricted. Take advantage of the system while it's still going on!

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Personally, I abused the basically free for all sand time which benefits many players who require more soldiery pieces than high allagan for best in slot. But at the same time, I didn't even need it because I had cleared turn 4 before getting all the sands and oils for full i110. So previously I had the stance that casuals shouldn't get i110 but by mulling it over, it doesn't matter if they get i110, they still (mostly) can't beat current end-game content and will wait until it is nerfed in the next patch to tackle it. The problem is still that it's unrestricted. Take advantage of the system while it's still going on!

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Yeah man. Same here, cleared all 4 turns and i110 before Hunt, ToS was junk to me and I didn't know what to do with them. Now it is like, I have too many seals but too little ToS, lol!

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Originally Posted by Black91CRX

There aren't any handouts. Raiders just getting upset because others have access to their precious gears outside of Coil. Must be bad for their "selling carries" business...lol.

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Must be awesome to just rehash the same argument everytime it's been shot down.

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

Weapons. Weapons everywhere.

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You can get UAT from CT. The only weapon you could get is Turn 9, and the new gear will not suddenly enable people to do turn 9 that couldn't do it before.

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Also, you'll be missing out on some major storyline. Sure, you can watch it from someone else's perspective, but what fun is that?

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It's going to be a joke in comparison to how it is now in 1 patch.

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Plus, the battles are lots of fun. They're really a good test of playability with your job. Fun stuffs.

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Not for everyone. I enjoy it, but a lot of people don't do coil for that, they do it for the story or the gear. Don't need the gear anymore, and next patch it will be trivial to do for the story. The only story is in turn 9 anyways.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Well, this is the issue. It's been said in this thread many times but since it is kind of long and people don't like reading a too much; Sands and Oils of Time are restriction in the two end-game raid type dungeons. Those being Casual Tower 2, Syrcus Tower, and the Second Coil of Bahamut. They both have 1 week lockout. To remain internally consistent, it should follow that obtaining Sands and Oils of Time from Allied Seals should also be 1 week lockout....!

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For example, to remain internally consistent, the restriction should be made on the cap of seals, but not how many times you can exchange it per week. (same as tomes system) It also resolved many "unable to hunt" complaints.
That's what I don't understand. I think the focus of the problem is the seals system that it has no cap.
Anyway I think it is too late to make any changes, maybe the world is going to end soon. Today I feel it is turning into LoL . ^^;

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Must be awesome to just rehash the same argument everytime it's been shot down.

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I don't see you shooting down anything.

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

TBH, everytime I read "raider", I feel the word is big but the action is small actually, and it only refer to playing the last dungeon of this game^^;

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Yeah, pretty much. It's telling that despite it being admitted as the place for the best gear, intended by the devs, they are complaining that other things share a ilvl with them outside of their dungeon.

Without the ilvl there would be no issue. This is purely ego talking.

Or could it be that the so called raiders do not actually want to raid either?

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Without the ilvl there would be no issue. This is purely ego talking.

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I didn't realize people couldn't compare stats to each other. Silly me for thinking people can read.

So how many people have actually been affected by this hypothetical problem? lot of prophecy in this thread about what is going to happen, instead of what has happened.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

So how many people have actually been affected by this hypothetical problem? lot of prophecy in this thread about what is going to happen, instead of what has happened.

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I am guessing zero no FC or Static group pugs nor can you pug Scob.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

So how many people have actually been affected by this hypothetical problem? lot of prophecy in this thread about what is going to happen, instead of what has happened.

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My FC has actually seen people talking about not doing coil because they can get sands/oils from hunts, on Exc at least. It's kind of funny.

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Originally Posted by ispano

My FC has actually seen people talking about not doing coil because they can get sands/oils from hunts, on Exc at least. It's kind of funny.

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But what about those High Allagan weapons? Most of them look pretty awful but they do a lot of damage.

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but filthy casuals are still limited by a weekly soldiery cap

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Filthy raiders were limited by that too while progressin. On top of a limited amount of sands and oils per week ...

I have not heard a good reason why someone who doesn't do the most difficult content in the game deserves the same items as someone who does engage in the most difficult content. The "options" excuse is only viable if you create content that is on equal difficulty level of Coils. Teleporting and hitting NM's is not hard, grinding is not hard. Time consumption is not a valid excuse either. I personally don't mind if sands/oils drop elsewhere, but the value of them and 110 gear in general has dropped very low and Hunts was the worst thing to put them in the way it is now. There should of been more restrictions on obtaining these items. Why do people believe they should be able to max out their character without touching the raids? I just can't figure out this backwards logic.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

I have not heard a good reason why someone who doesn't do the most difficult content in the game deserves the same items as someone who does engage in the most difficult content. The "options" excuse is only viable if you create content that is on equal difficulty level of Coils. Teleporting and hitting NM's is not hard, grinding is not hard. Time consumption is not a valid excuse either. I personally don't mind if sands/oils drop elsewhere, but the value of them and 110 gear in general has dropped very low and Hunts was the worst thing to put them in the way it is now. There should of been more restrictions on obtaining these items. Why do people believe they should be able to max out their character without touching the raids? I just can't figure out this backwards logic.

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How about they pay the same subs? And if you want them to continue paying you give other upgrade options.

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Originally Posted by Elven

How about they pay the same subs? And if you want them to continue paying you give other upgrade options.

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Same content is offered to everyone in that subscription fee. Only thing stopping you from doing raid content is you.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Same content is offered to everyone in that subscription fee. Only thing stopping you from doing raid content is you.

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So what exactly is the problem? If they can get the gear some other way.

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Originally Posted by Elven

So what exactly is the problem? If they can get the gear some other way.

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"Blah blah blah casuals, blah blah blah epeen, blah blah blah special snowflake."

He's just one of those raiders who only raids to feel better than other people. Ignore him.

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Originally Posted by Eissels

"Blah blah blah casuals, blah blah blah epeen, blah blah blah special snowflake."

He's just one of those raiders who only raids to feel better than other people. Ignore him.

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And you sounds like one of those entitled casuals that wants all the loot with no effort.

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Originally Posted by Elven

So what exactly is the problem? If they can get the gear some other way.

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Highest difficulty should yield highest rewards. Getting the same ilvl gear in easier content at a much more rapid rate is basically hand holding and spoiling people. At least High Allagan weapons are still a thing, before SE decides that everyone should have one before 2.4 hits.

They should have not added sands of time to the Hunt.
Unidentified Allagan Tomestone <--- this would have been enough to boost up the Hunt.

Sands were the only thing imho they shouldn't have added.
Also daily marks are a joke, 7seals a day? LoL

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Highest difficulty should yield highest rewards. Getting the same ilvl gear in easier content at a much more rapid rate is basically hand holding and spoiling people. At least High Allagan weapons are still a thing, before SE decides that everyone should have one before 2.4 hits.

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I couldn't care a less what gear anybody else has got nor do I care what they are doing. But don't get me wrong when I am in a party/raid/alliance I will perform my job to the best of my ability and all I ask is the same in return. It's probably been said before in here already but gear doesn't make the player, skill does. At the end of the day no FC/Static group raids outside their clique.

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Originally Posted by Elven

I couldn't care a less what gear anybody else has got nor do I care what they are doing. But don't get me wrong when I am in a party/raid/alliance I will perform my job to the best of my ability and all I ask is the same in return. It's probably been said before in here already but gear doesn't make the player, skill does. At the end of the day no FC/Static group raids outside their clique.

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The discussion isn't really about what the person next to you is wearing. It is the argument of design choices by SE in acquiring top level gear. It is an understatement that patches like 2.1 and 2.3 loosen things up a bit and offer more convenience, but the question is, when does it go too far? On our side of the debate, we believe Hunts rewarding Sands/Oils of Time is giving too much. Places like CT is fine where you are lotting against others and you are locked out for a week on it. Limitations and borders have to be set up to create balance in progression. The way Hunts are set up now, the said borders for the most part do not exist. Don't bring the topic to "shouldn't care what someone else is wearing", this is all about general problems in game design.

I love people that say anything in this game is a true challenge. Yes, there is an INITIAL challenge with content, but seriously for you coil spammers, how hard could it possibly be if it's being beaten with relative ease week after week by static groups.

The only challenges in this game are battles you haven't programmed into your brain yet. Oh and dealing with wipes in ST. I can't even.... -.-

In a weird way, hunts aren't that drastically different from regular raid content in that if it weren't for voice chat, it'd be a complete disaster and extremely challenging to ever get anything.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

And you sounds like one of those entitled casuals that wants all the loot with no effort.

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Actually, no. I haven't even participated in hunts. I'll get loot when I find the group to get it, and that's fine with me. The only reason I'm "casual" now is because I'm tired of being the hardcore, because it doesn't get you anywhere but frustrated and stressed.

Like I've said twenty times now, if you forget about the people around you, and focus on what YOU are doing/earning, you'll be a lot happier.

Edit: The only thing I really "want" in this game is Lightning's hair and Garuda HM bow, because vanity. :P

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Originally Posted by Velhart

The discussion isn't really about what the person next to you is wearing. It is the argument of design choices by SE in acquiring top level gear. It is an understatement that patches like 2.1 and 2.3 loosen things up a bit and offer more convenience, but the question is, when does it go too far? On our side of the debate, we believe Hunts rewarding Sands/Oils of Time is giving too much. Places like CT is fine where you are lotting against others and you are locked out for a week on it. Limitations and borders have to be set up to create balance in progression. The way Hunts are set up now, the said borders for the most part do not exist. Don't bring the topic to "shouldn't care what someone else is wearing", this is all about general problems in game design.

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And I'm telling you nobody cares except what loot is coming their way and no preference where it's coming from. The exact same attitude happens when lock outs are lifted.

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Originally Posted by Elven

And I'm telling you nobody cares except what loot is coming their way and no preference where it's coming from. The exact same attitude happens when lock outs are lifted.

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This 44 page discussion says otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Snip

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First of all, max ilvl =/= best gear. You will need to do Coil2 to get BiS. Anyways, you caring about how someone else obtains gear is very childish lol Do you booboo, don't worry about anyone but you unless you're trying to help them. Some people just aren't available for statics OR prefer to get great strong gear before starting their Coil2 raids.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

This 44 page discussion says otherwise.

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That's because guys like you think it's an entitlement and it just annoys you people are able to gear up without raiding coil.

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Originally Posted by Elven

That's because guys like you think it's an entitlement and it just annoys you people are able to gear up without raiding coil.

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Preach gurl. *snaps*

No one cares that they can get the same level gear. The point is that it creates an illusion that the player completed certain things, so you expect a certain level of play. If you set your PF for item level 105, shall we say, you would expect to get some people who know their way around and have beaten some of the harder fights.

But now, you have people joining groups that have only done some dungeons and hunts, know nothing about the more challenging fights, who join the parties expecting to learn or get carried when you were looking for seasoned experienced players. Then you waste your time finding out that they in fact have no clue what's going on and have to start all over again.

Everyone's time is valuable. Having peoples item level appropriate to the content they are clearing helps to ease finding the type of group you want. Having all item level accessible to anyone (example normal dungeons anyone can do and hunting aka whackamole) just totally defeats the purpose.

See Makado I can reason with that as it is true. To counter that issue though, just threaten to kick after two mistakes. It usually works out fine for me when I make groups. People hate being publicly shamed/embarrassed lol

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Originally Posted by Makado

No one cares that they can get the same level gear. The point is that it creates an illusion that the player completed certain things, so you expect a certain level of play. If you set your PF for item level 105, shall we say, you would expect to get some people who know their way around and have beaten some of the harder fights.

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Judging people's skill by their item level was never smart. If you set your minimum item level in PF to 105, you should expect to get people who fulfill that item level requirement, nothing more. If you don't want people who don't know the content yet, don't check the "Newcomers welcome" box and put "Please have experience with the fight" in the PF comment.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Judging people's skill by their item level was never smart. If you set your minimum item level in PF to 105, you should expect to get people who fulfill that item level requirement, nothing more. If you don't want people who don't know the content yet, don't check the "Newcomers welcome" box and put "Please have experience with the fight" in the PF comment.

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While I understand the point you're trying to make, I don't agree with it. What Makodo is explaining is that it keeps people from "spinning their wheels" by having a particular item level cap on the content yet people still worming their way in and being inexperienced with the content. What you're saying is that he should do that anyway and expect it... which I feel is a bit of an unreasonable request. How else does one suppose to filter things to their preferences with deceptive "fence jumping" in play?