Please buff Succor.

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Originally Posted by Valiant

with 2 whms.. why not... did it that way in 1.0 with van darnus... regen kept people alive quite well due to tick potency.. 2.0 is no different medica 2 plus regen even from 1 whm is better than 1 aldo shield. and i already gave you the math from my sch and whm... my own medica2 + regen heals for more than aldo prevents. til that is nerfed or sch shields can stack 2 whms will always be more viable then whm sch

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Why not? That's not an answer- I told you mana and GCDs. Maybe medica 2 + regen is great for healing on the tank during AE... of course you ignore lustrate. Now, tell me where you apply Medica 2 + regen to the entire group. You were talking about group heals.

Where? Tell me the fight you spam regen and medica 2 on the whole raid.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Why not? That's not an answer- I told you mana and GCDs. Maybe medica 2 + regen is great for healing on the tank during AE... of course you ignore lustrate. Now, tell me where you apply Medica 2 + regen to the entire group. You were talking about group heals.

Where? Tell me the fight you spam regen and medica 2 on the whole raid.

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lustrate requiers Aetherflow... now if you are gonna add that ill add benediction.. longer cd but heals 1 target to full.. better than 60% every min

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Originally Posted by Valiant

lustrate requiers Aetherflow... now if you are gonna add that ill add benediction.. longer cd but heals 1 target to full.. better than 60% every min

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Debateable... but irrelevant. You were talking group heals. Then you gave single target healing figures and are trying to portray that as a group heal figure.

I said your "math" is BS unless you can give me an example of a fight, where you sit spamming regen on the entire raid and medica 2. Otherwise, you don't achieve those numbers. I'm tired of people mis-representing whm healing and using that to scream that SCH are "suffering" ... or the whopper liars that just go straight to claims that WHM x 2 is "better" than WHM+SCH... because they say so.

Some SCH want the legitimate issues fixed like pet UI... and some are just coming in here being deceptive to scream for buffs because they want to be OP.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

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i will say it was done on Ultima we survived well enough.. some dd died due to idiocy in second phase.. (that dance is too simple) type 2 Ultima it wasnt needed since most aoe was easily avoidable. besides the cd caused by regen is the same as cure and if PoM is used right its easy to pop on alot of people real quick. Once again 1 regen heals more health than one cure.. you're a 50 CNJ go out and try it yourself and count each tick... regen heals more than cure 1 therefore a very useful spell to keep up health.. same goes for medica 2 than medica 1. pop medica 2's regen effect compared to medica 1 far more health will be restored.. the potency is per tick. If it wasn't per tick WHMs wouldn't be more useful than SCH.. and in 1.0 same method was used on van darnus.. 2.0 isnt much different than 1.0

Get back on topic. My point is that Succor is a terrible spell. I know the WHM advocates of course want to see their hierarchy maintained because it benefits them to be NEEDED as opposed to optional (a luxury none of the DPS outside bards have).

It's just incredibly weak, and if you're going to make a bad AoE spell, just scrap it and give us more tools for what we are meant to be good at instead.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Blah.

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Before you continue to spout your nonsense, take 2 Scholars though Titan HM, then take 2 White Mages and tell me how perfectly fine Scholar is.

Yeah, Succor can -totally- save a group from stomps when he's near death.

Id honestly take the WHMs aoe heal due to shear power it has over Succor any day and Im a Scholar. Succor needs some love big time. The weak heal + weak shield just doesnt do squat when mobs blow through the shield like its nothing which it quite literally is.

WHM: "SCH is fine!". Its quite funny to see some SCHs in this thread also have 50WHM, while the most persistent WHM here is almost clueless about the class =\

SE never said they wanted whm/whm or sch/sch in raids. They want both. I think the issue isn't that whm/whm is better i think sch/sch is poorly designed.

Problem is things like dungeon finder exist where its possible two scholars may come together and you can't change classes in raid. Not that i think df is the way to go if you want to clear content anyway but it exists.

I do think sch aoe could use a fix in the sense that after shielding it just overwrites, whether its one or two so that scholars don't synergize well. No class should end up stepping on the toes of another by game design.

I still think it wouldn't be game breaking for the same heal to do a % more direct healing if the shield buff is already on. Its not really a buff in potency but in effective healing.

That being said, if sch are given aoe healing on par with whm etc. I would expect to see their mana efficiency and threat management take a hit.

If succor was buffed to be a group spell as powerful as medica2 plus rolled regen all in one cast- or if SCH group heal was just powerful as whm- why would you ever take a whm for anything?

Optimal would shift from SCH + WHM to SCH x2 and the game would have a very clear alpha healer. SCH would do everything a whm does... plus shields, mitigation, mana, and healing on the move with pet.

It seems to me the only way to address stacking without making SCH OP is to make WHM medica regens overwrite each other... with the more powerful one overwriting the weaker one. That would preserve the ideal SCH + WHM, while making stacking WHMs less attractive.