Speaking as a controller user, I find that there is no need to remove the AoE toggle to "free up" buttons. I have the AoE toggle set to my Square button (using a PS3 controller), and have never felt that it was a "wasted" button or that its preventing me from setting a more important function to that button.
I like the idea of AoE specialists, and even like the idea of "aga" spells, however as mentioned this would clutter the skill bars and take precious action points to achieve in any traditional sense.
Now that doesn't prevent them from being creative, for instance, you start with "Fire" that does not have the ability to AoE, and you later unlock the AoE for that spell, or equip the AoE (Materia!), or some other such device that would enable the AoE toggle for a (or all) spells.
Its not just one slot, its one slot for every single AoE skill we have. This would drastically reduce the number of skills we have per bar and is just generally a bad idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava
Other than "it uses a button I would rather use for something else" there has not been a viable argument for the removal of the AoE toggle UI.
Your arguments as they stand are about the mechanics of AoE skills, not the toggle. Wanting the AoE skill mechanics to change is something entirely different. I agree that AoE's should cost more MP and/or do less overall damage/heal, take longer to cast, etc...
None of these require the removal of the toggle UI, just the restructuring of how AoE's work and the cost to toggle. The toggle UI is a great addition to the game and makes using a controller a more enjoyable experience.
Remove AOE Toggle
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05-24-2011, 02:31 AMthedevilsjester
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05-24-2011, 03:38 AMReika
They never specifically said anything about action points tho... it is absolute speculation, and hope, since it coincides with your desires to have separate spells for Aoe.
But the aoe toggle is gonna stay. they are increasing the enmity generation and MP cost of aoe cast spells. -
05-24-2011, 09:48 AMSlugQuote:
Originally Posted by Crowley
I disagree. I feel that having the ability to use every spell AOE currently without any penalty is madness. For the most part, playing a mage is mindless. I don't have to pay attention to who is taking damage, amongst other things in battle (who is the one that got poisoned, how much hate is this cure going to pull etc.).
You can choose any final fantasy title in the series, and find a better system. Whether they take on the FFXI approach; AOE cures are learned a tad later than the single target spell, cost much more mp (approx 3times) and pull a large amount of hate. This would make you think twice about using it, and save it for dire situations. (strategy)
OR take it back a few years, draw on the old classic system where toggling AOE for your abilities resulted in a significant penalty to magic potency. Cures would cure a lot less hp than the single target, nukes do much less damage etc.
Either way, I would like to see this touched on eventually. -
05-24-2011, 10:01 AMRowyne
Static widget would be fine, by me.
I'm really not theory crafting here. Let us AoE everything, don't let us AoE everything. I really don't care right now. I'm a kb/mouse user, and I'm just tired of having to hit that damned green AoE toggle with my enter key or click it with my mouse every time I cast a spell. I don't want to see it pop up in my face anymore. It's redundant and is in desperate need of a redesign. -
05-24-2011, 09:14 PMthedevilsjesterA static widget that requires clicking would be very painful for a controller user. Trying to navigate to the AoE toggle constantly when you wish to change to/from AoE would not be very intuitive, and making a button exclusively toggle the AoE widget (instead of being a clicked button) would reduce the amount of functions you can have on a controller because as it stands the to AoE or not AoE button is, when the AoE pop-up is not visible, used for other actions. Maybe if the toggle worked only when the skill bar is up...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowyne
The UI dev team has a rough job as it is. They have to take an (established) interface that people expect from a (almost exclusively) keyboard/mouse genre and make it work equally well with a controller, keeping the same consistent UI no matter your input device (and this is VERY important). I applaud them on their work so far, it is no easy task to please everyone. -
05-25-2011, 05:01 AMRowyneI wholeheartedly agree, which is why they need dual UIs instead of this one-size-fits-all that tries to please everyone but actually pleases no one.Quote:
Originally Posted by thedevilsjester
But that's another topic.
My opinion stands, I hate the AoE toggle. -
05-26-2011, 12:20 AMTehMi1kman
Totally agree with the OP. The difference between buffing and attacking single/multiple targets not only is very tactical, but it also plays a HUGE role in defining classes, ie: the difference between red mage and scholar buffing capabilities in ffxi.
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05-28-2011, 05:26 AMPunainen
I don't have enough bar spaces for single spells and -ga spells (And I WANT to be able to do BOTH)... I WANT MY AOE BUTTON!! DoW/H/L shouldn't have one, but as a DoM, I need it, k thanks.
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05-28-2011, 07:38 AMLerris
The system is fine as is. Except that there is no additional cost for AoE. That makes mages excessively powerful. There needs to be an increased MP cost and/or casting time for Area spells. Cooldown time as mentioned earlier would be a bad idea.
I didn't realize only DoM got the toggle... but that needs to stay the same. -
05-28-2011, 09:03 AMReika
Back in the day, older final fantasy games.... Spells were both single target and aoe depending on how you wanted to cast them. you could even select a few targets instead of them all. FFVI was like that i think. FFIV was definantly that way. A few others were too.
So being able to chose between aoe and single target of a single spell is nothing new.
Those games, however, had potency and MP penalties for casting them AOE. It is something that is in the works to being that way right now.