Quick Poll on Microphones

http://i.imgur.com/GJo36X3.jpg


This thread went south fairly quickly. People have their preferences no need to be all butthurt over it.


I feel that unless you're confident 100% with what you're doing in the content you're participating in or deaf (more common than you think) you should at least have ventrilo/mumble on and listen in for orders & notifications.

I however don't feel it's necessary for you to ALWAYS be on voice when you're logged in. I don't feel that it's necessary to be on voice just to be invited for content if you're on stand-by or just gathering/crafting to pass time.

It pretty simple to understand voice chat you like it and want people to use it to what your standards and others are placed and don't like to be challeged when someone does not totally agree with those set of views. Voice chat is a convenience to players it good to have the first few fights but afterwards it becomes a place to bs talk while doing that content because by then you know what needs to be done by that point and can casually talk to people while playing at same time.

I have a pretty good quality integrated microphone in my laptop, and three different VOIPS (Mumble, TS3, and C3)

in lot of vent forced shells the only people that get invited are people on vent, i've been there b4 with swtor and other mmo's. you have like almost no talking in type and only time you even hear about an event is if they just need 1 person cause they short a person. but my opinion is any mmo that doesn't have full linkshell vents like ffxi are just useless social hubs where the maker and his 6-8buddies just use the rest of the shell for there own needs. it's not the same as linkshells in ffxi, even ffxiv shells aren't the same. hopefully the 25man crystal towers fixes that. and lets pray ffxi does more endgame like that or with bigger numbers in the future rather then less.

sadly the majority of people these days trying to lead want forced vent, luckily for us autogrouping has taken over and most of us don't need to deal with it. but reality is all i want from my mmo's is full linkshell events, i'd take vent forced over not having large events like that. but in stuff like that you will always have to retype it for people who missed what you said.

worst was warhammer, i know my forced vent shell used to use those not on vent. tell them to attack somewhere else to trick the other faction while vent people went somewhere else. the right place to be. it is bull shit lol.

oh also even though we can do things and talk info at same time, it usually don't happen that way. usually we get to a spot, stop and then talk about what needs to be done for like 10mins? lol same as what needs to be done in a typing party, so what is the point other then the typing.

Vilhem and crew, no point even talking to fusional. They have an entire forest stuck up their ass and the ego to match. Everything they post is correct and us lowly worms should know our place and worship the dirt they stand on. Every thread they post in turns out the same.

Enters thread to try and start debates, either failing or not they then start using bigger words each post while linking random websites. If that does not work they then increase the size of the words and try to make you look like a fail debater even though they were the only party involved in said debate.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

oh also even though we can do things and talk info at same time, it usually don't happen that way. usually we get to a spot, stop and then talk about what needs to be done for like 10mins? lol same as what needs to be done in a typing party, so what is the point other then the typing.

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Tbh there is no point. I prefer it for the convenience of not having to type and the entertainment factor. I've done things with and without voice chat and while I prefer with, It's only because it made things more fun.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

oh also even though we can do things and talk info at same time, it usually don't happen that way. usually we get to a spot, stop and then talk about what needs to be done for like 10mins? lol same as what needs to be done in a typing party, so what is the point other then the typing.

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For the rare thing where timing is critical, you can't beat voice chat. If 7 out of 8 players are on voice chat, nobody ever wants to give instructions twice, so the 8th player gets the shaft. Beyond that, voice chat is great for socializing and joking around so that you can keep control of your character while doing so.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

You want to talk fallacies? You want to link Wiki articles? This little detour began over a fallacy.

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i never committed that fallacy. i never said people weren't true/real/raiders if they didn't use voice chat. i said, in the context of modern mmos, if you don't use voice chat it's impossible to be *serious* about raiding. if you want to split hairs over my definition of 'serious', that's perfectly valid and we can do that. but don't misrepresent my position.

if i were to say obama isn't a "real skeet shooter" because of X Y Z, then yes- that's the fallacy you referenced. but if i said he's "not a serious skeet shooter" because of X Y Z, it's not. it's different. and it would be difficult to argue he *is* a serious skeet shooter. you COULD argue that, but it wouldn't be easy.

(and don't get it twisted- this example says nothing of my political beliefs)

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

Your criteria for "serious" didn't make sense to me, since you and I have completed all the endgame content XIV had to offer, except I--and my entire group--used text while you used voice. Your claim contradicted my experience and I thought it was interesting.

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how was it contradictory? do you really think our groups are the same, sharing the same experiences? you don't think there's a difference between coordinating a group aiming for world first kills and a group coming along and doing the content weeks or months later, after the strategies have already been totally ironed out, and videos have been posted everywhere for reference?

so when you have no videos to go by and no guides to read, and you're pushing to finish content before anyone else- you don't think that's at all different? you don't think that not only gives us reason to use voice chat, but pretty much requires it if we're *serious* about our goals?

you're trying to say our positions are equivalent when they aren't. and this isn't taking away from your own achievements whatsoever. you get relic, you get white ravens- congrats. more power to you. my LS wishes more people in the community would strive for the same. but the simple fact of the matter is this is effectively false syllogism. "you do endgame and we do endgame, therefore we are both serious about it"

it doesn't work because it's not equivalent. but once again- what you could do here is debate my definition of 'serious', and upon doing so you could very rightfully claim that there are different levels of seriousness and that it isn't all the same. and in doing so, i'd agree and relent on that particular issue.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

You have since expanded the scope of your original claim

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i did nothing of the sort. i included all modern mmos in the context of my original statement.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

But I haven't played every modern MMO and won't speak for things I've never actually done.

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good on you. that puts you in the minority around here, and i can assure you any time someone can acknowledge which context they base their position on and which context they can't speak from, it's very much appreciated and helps quite a bit in the pursuit of actual constructive discussion.

i wouldn't bother speaking for the pros and cons of elements in various fighting games because i don't really play many and am not really that into them when i do. i do, however, try quite a lot of MMOs. this makes me come across as a know-it-all at times, but the bottom line is that this forum is an MMO forum and devs are looking to other MMOs for inspiration in their reboot of FFXIV. so the topic comes up a lot. and i happen to have quite a lot of experience with it.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

Still, regarding XIV, I gave you an actual example of an actual thing that actually happened. I was witness to it with seven other people. It's an objective reality. Defeating Darnus with text is as objectively real as defeating Darnus with voice. It's only subjective as a matter of preference, which is perfectly fine and doesn't diminish or enhance your accomplishments or my own.

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yes, true- you did beat it, and it does prove it's not *necessary* for voice chat. i never said it was necessary, though. i said it was "impossible to be serious"- and again, this leaves room for debate over just what "serious" means, but that doesn't say "impossible to accomplish"

furthermore, as i previously mentioned- the fact that it's possible doesn't mean all experiences are the same. and the word "equal" shouldn't imply i'm comparing 'better' or 'worst'- just that they aren't equivalent. implying our experiences are the same based simply on the fact that we both beat it does disservice to the entire basis for comparison, as the comparison needs to be made on an equal basis *or* context must be provided to allow for an inequality (ie: the fact that we do it without any videos or guides, and try to do it as fast as possible after patch goes live. very few other LSs experience this and as a result they largely experience content differently than we do. this is especially noteworthy in the context of voice chat and other elements which improve performance)

as you said- none of this diminishes your efforts or enhances my own. i agree. however, this makes our efforts and experiences and the resulting perspectives a bit different. and while we can also split hairs over just *how* different- the difference is there nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

I insist we actually discuss things instead of inciting a lock with hostility, arrogance and misplaced, pseudo-intellectual flimflam. I'm invested in XIV as much as you, dude, I give a fuck about these things. Go look at the MNK forum if you don't believe me.

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but discussing things is exactly what i do, until i'm met with (or simply observe) an attitude which isn't conducive to constructive discussion. and you can very clearly see a lot of that here and in any number of other threads. (both examples of me constructively discussing things and people presenting an attitude which isn't conducive to that)

i'm not the best person at interpersonal politics, but i understand systems and logic, and i'm quite good at cutting through to the heart of any matter. details often bore me. i'm much more interesting in sifting through arguments to isolate and argue for the principle. the fact that you're invested and you care and you actually want to discuss things is appreciated, but you also have to understand that *there is such an overwhelming amount of garbage* posted in this forums that i can get tired of it and it makes me short with people.

it's a character weakness i've acknowledged on multiple occasions in the forums, and whenever it comes up i do apologize. i try to work around it, but it's difficult. especially when i do care quite a lot about this game being successful in 2.0 and so many forum regulars, in spite of possibly (probably) having good intentions, seem to be working against this end- whether wittingly or not.

in the end i shouldn't be short with particular people just because i'm tired of reading other people posting floods of stupid shit. it's not your fault, and i'm sorry for that.

that said, though- it is incredibly frustrating when i make a point of carefully choosing my words to say exactly what i mean denotatively (or, if not- at least providing proper context otherwise) only for people to misconstrue and misrepresent my position, happily interjecting their own connotative meanings in its place, only to carry on repeating their own position without context, without base.

devs gave these forums to us to help us provide feedback to improve game quality. but instead people just seem content to use it as a chaotic sounding board for non-constructively throwing biases at each other. and then what's even the point of having the forums? it just makes the devs' jobs exponentially harder, wading through the piles of muck to find a few scattered gold coins.

it reduces them to the gaming equivalent of toshers, and it's pretty irritating to watch unfold.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

this thread reminds me of something...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNTxr2NJHa0

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more like this.
Yes this again.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

oh also even though we can do things and talk info at same time, it usually don't happen that way. usually we get to a spot, stop and then talk about what needs to be done for like 10mins? lol same as what needs to be done in a typing party, so what is the point other then the typing.

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I think it's just the fun of hearing each other's voices. I did some of my grouping with my LS buddies, and some I did with other people, but most of my grouping was done with people from other LSs combined with a few people from my own. And in those groups, we never had voice chat. And we kicked butt. Some raid groups insist on it, I'm sure. But none of the ones I've been in ever did, and we did more than just fine.

In fact, most of the time I chatted with my LS, it was when we were apart and doing our own thing. Like I'll be off mining and other people will be off weaving or something, and we'd all listen in on each other's dirty jokes and funny stories and laugh. That's what vent was used mostly for in my LS. Socializing.