Please Reconsider Splitting Main and Off-Tank Roles Based on Job

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

I think you are overestimating how many people actually care about doing the absolute best when they are in a group of random people. You just cannot control everything, so most people just shrug off the inevitable minor damage loses.

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Yeah... no. There is an astounding amount of players that care about DPS in content where the DPS is completely irrelevant.

I personally would place money on Off Tank being the better of the two, and double OT being meta.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I personally would place money on Off Tank being the better of the two, and double OT being meta.

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Sounds about right, OT's likely going to do more damage as a baseline and generally speaking when have tanks ever needed the extra mitigation SE tends to overestimate how much mitigation is important, Tanks are already incredibly invincible. The extra possible raid wides these OT's give out is going to be way more valuable then having more mitigation on already immortal tanks.

I honestly think this system just is terrible; the whole pld change could be done without forcing it into MT and other tanks into OT, they literally have a skill called intervention, just reward that as well as holy sheltron and wow! almost like we didn't need these unnecessary tank changes at all.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I personally would place money on Off Tank being the better of the two, and double OT being meta.

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I think this outcome is very likely, and honestly expected.

If the game wants to create a real distinction between Main Tank and Off Tank, then there has to be some kind of meaningful trade-off or punishment for ignoring that distinction.

Otherwise, if an Off Tank can still function perfectly well as a Main Tank, or if a Main Tank can still bring most of the Off Tank value, then the roles stop having a real identity. At that point, everyone will naturally just pick whatever gives the most value, and double OT becoming meta would be the obvious result.

So either Off Tank needs to be clearly weaker at actually tanking, or Main Tank needs to be clearly weaker at Off Tank utility. Without that separation, the system risks becoming too watered down, where the labels exist but the gameplay difference does not really matter.

No. This change is good (even though people can't help but be bias of their favorite jobs). You'll adapt and the world will keep spinning. I applaud SE for taking the risks they're taking in 8.0

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Originally Posted by Mukuku

Yeah... no. There is an astounding amount of players that care about DPS in content where the DPS is completely irrelevant.

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I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this point.

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Originally Posted by Mukuku

Yeah... no. There is an astounding amount of players that care about DPS in content where the DPS is completely irrelevant.

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Not what you see in PF, at least not on Light DC.

Nobody kicks for class. Ever. Quite the opposite, you are happy to fill non-standard if it means you wait 10 minutes less. Hence bringing two casters, one on a melee slot, etc etc.

Someone clearly hasn't seen the no MCH PFs on EU in the past years at some of its worst iterations. Oh you could definitely find a lot of spots open though, but it happens.

It's not clear cut or black and white, there is no inherent bans happening DC wide, but it's also not a situation where 100% of the PFs will be free game either for certain jobs at specific balance times.

And that's just PF that is generally more accepting than actual statics, see ultimate recruitment this expansion where PCT dominated.

I do not understand how Dark Knight, who's design has encouraged counterattacking since its FFXIV debut, is supposed to be a supportive tank, but Paladin is a counterattacking tank. Despite it's supportive fantasy and it continues to have Passage of Arms (with an AoE heal added to it). This is not the complaint of a salty DRK main. It's actually my second favorite tank. PLD is the job I raided savage on.

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Originally Posted by Emitans

I do not understand how Dark Knight, who's design has encouraged counterattacking since its FFXIV debut, is supposed to be a supportive tank, but Paladin is a counterattacking tank. Despite it's supportive fantasy and it continues to have Passage of Arms (with an AoE heal added to it). This is not the complaint of a salty DRK main. It's actually my second favorite tank. PLD is the job I raided savage on.

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DRK has not have any mechanics related to parry for multiple expansions now. TBN doesn't yield you any extra dps(*) nor does it require you to be the MT to use. From pure job fantasy perspective DRK being a designated OT is a perfect opportunity to actually bring the OG FF DRK job fantasy which is spending HP for DPS, something XIV DRK never had except for PvP DRK designed by Mr Prime. PvP TBN and Shadowbringer interaction is 10x more interesting than the effective MP refund we have now.

Regarding dev panel PLD: yes PLD got a heal follow up on wings, but it lost the healing effect on Divine Veil so that's not really a buff, and Divine Veil went from 90s to 120s cooldown, so overall its party support got nerfed. We've only seen half of the horse for now and we won't really know what they mean to do with offtanks until we see an example.

(*) You get a little bit of aDPS gain by banking dark arts for 2min burst, but even that you usually do by putting TBN on a squishy for a raidwide before 2min comes up.