This is what i call BULLCRAP

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

It's not even harder, as you said it makes it even easier to get multiple fc houses in lottery, you have to wait 30 days which is the only hassle but then you can get multiple houses at once and it makes up for the "time lost", people thought lottery would fix housing from both bots and multiowners, if anything, it helped both to spread even further, but hey, people wanted placard gone, they got what they wanted

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I'd consider it harder tbh. The black market sale system has been around for years as well and the lottery system completely destroyed the personal house selling/relocation market. Now you have people selling FC houses for hundreds of millions of gil regardless of size, some even asking for over a billion for a large FC. Plus the amount of scams/RMT regarding housing are on the rise since you can just say you'll give someone the house in 30 days and then just kick them and keep the gil/have to pay actual cash for a house. It was a lot easier back before lotto happened to get a house for a reasonable price. Now you just get people being squeezed dry because of how much harder it is to get a house now in general with 200+ people on a placard for private housing, so FC sale prices are reflective of that. If you want a house now, be prepared to spend at least 100m.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

people thought lottery would fix housing from both bots and multiowners, if anything, it helped both to spread even further, but hey, people wanted placard gone, they got what they wanted

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For FCs it made it worse, but for individuals its a massive improvement. 0% chance on getting a house, or having over 60% (from multiple attempts) is a huge diffirence. Sure, i still dont have a house after that, but the odds on that were infinitely better.

SE should just act better against abuse in this case by introducing more restrictions, including systems that enable demolition to happen. For example:
- Instead of just counting players, it considers only subscribed players.
- If a player falls under more FCs, that player is now worth less in that check. If he is part of 3 FCs, he is only worth 0.334 player on each char (rounding to 3 decimals wont matter due to FC player limits).
- If a house no longer passes the 4 members requirement, its marked for demolition, if not getting that 4th player after 60 day (extended a bit to be graceful), the house gets demolished. For grandfathering they could even make this requirement like 1 year to give sufficient time to resolve this (and note, granting a new owner using customer support or something like that would be the solution here if the FC owner was inactive for a long time).
- For bidding, if at the lottery end time the FC lacks members, its bid wil be excluded (and enable the full refund). This again means you need sufficient subscriptions.
- If a player left an FC, that FC is still considered for 60 days in this system. Changing 4 times on a single char means the player is only worth 0.2. This is to negate players leaving for a day to boost numbers.

Using this method, shell FCs require 4 full subscriptions worth of players, rather than just counting characters. It therefor motivates going for more members. For ward takeovers this then means a massive cost of sustaining.

And sure, its probably not optimal. But without such systems FC wards will always remain broken.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

I'd consider it harder tbh. The black market sale system has been around for years as well and the lottery system completely destroyed the personal house selling/relocation market. Now you have people selling FC houses for hundreds of millions of gil regardless of size, some even asking for over a billion for a large FC. Plus the amount of scams/RMT regarding housing are on the rise since you can just say you'll give someone the house in 30 days and then just kick them and keep the gil/have to pay actual cash for a house. It was a lot easier back before lotto happened to get a house for a reasonable price. Now you just get people being squeezed dry because of how much harder it is to get a house now in general with 200+ people on a placard for private housing, so FC sale prices are reflective of that. If you want a house now, be prepared to spend at least 100m.

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New worlds thankfully helped with that and made it easier to get "S-Tier" houses, so no need to go down that route, but yeah for NA it might be worse in particular if you want to be a house from the market because of extremely high prices.

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SE should just act better against abuse in this case by introducing more restrictions, including systems that enable demolition to happen. For example:
- Instead of just counting players, it considers only subscribed players.
- If a player falls under more FCs, that player is now worth less in that check. If he is part of 3 FCs, he is only worth 0.334 player on each char (rounding to 3 decimals wont matter due to FC player limits).
- If a house no longer passes the 4 members requirement, its marked for demolition, if not getting that 4th player after 60 day (extended a bit to be graceful), the house gets demolished. For grandfathering they could even make this requirement like 1 year to give sufficient time to resolve this (and note, granting a new owner using customer support or something like that would be the solution here if the FC owner was inactive for a long time).
- For bidding, if at the lottery end time the FC lacks members, its bid wil be excluded (and enable the full refund). This again means you need sufficient subscriptions.

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That system would just punish people who are just there to enjoy housing in the way they desire, with no ill intent towards anyone, I would know because housing is all I do in this game, I dont have ill intent towards anybody, if anything I gladly make my houses look amazing so they fit in with the area and they are not absolutely abandoned sitting there for months on end without any activity. People may dislike it but it is an activity in the game and for a minority of people like me, it is their main activity just like content is the activity of others, raiding or PVP.

I dont see why I should be punished by having to pay for a million accounts when I already have multiple to even keep the houses in the first place, else they will auto demo when they put auto demo back on.

Also before I get the brigade on my back, on EU there are on average over 200 plots left in Empyreum on each world, or a bit less, so I am not "taking someone else's plot".

I can understand the "hate" agaisnt people who are not touching their houses, leaving them like that, with the only idea of submarines in mind, keeping the garden empty, because those people only use housing to gain a certain gil advantage over others by abusing submarines.

However as I mentioned above, some people like me (a minority,sure) enjoy housing for exactly what it is, hell I dont even use submarines, I just take them because I love to decorate, create new layouts and themes, and I love to have variety.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

That system would just punish people who are just there to enjoy housing in the way they desire, with no ill intent towards anyone, I would know because housing is all I do in this game, I dont have ill intent towards anybody, if anything I gladly make my houses look amazing so they fit in with the area and they are not absolutely abandoned sitting there for months on end without any activity. People may dislike it but it is an activity in the game and for a minority of people like me, it is their main activity just like content is the activity of others, raiding or PVP.

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I am very much aware of it, hence i knew it isnt optimal. But without any system to negate abuse, those with ill intent are always going to be able to cause others to get locked out. Infinite housing would obviously be the only solution here, but is currently simply not possible.

But on that, even if housing is the only thing you are doing, if you are using an FC for that, you are technicaly already abusing the system and part of the problem to begin with. And as my idea does not affect individuals, it does not disrupt a single person for house ownership. It only will disrupt small groups. But thats where the tennant system can work since this still enables a group of 4 players to maintain a house.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Also before I get the brigade on my back, on EU there are on average over 200 plots left in Empyreum on each world, or a bit less, so I am not "taking someone else's plot".

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Not on the server i play (and changing server is not an option)

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

I am very much aware of it, hence i knew it isnt optimal. But without any system to negate abuse, those with ill intent are always going to be able to cause others to get locked out. Infinite housing would obviously be the only solution here, but is currently simply not possible.

But on that, even if housing is the only thing you are doing, if you are using an FC for that, you are technicaly already abusing the system and part of the problem to begin with. And as my idea does not affect individuals, it does not disrupt a single person for house ownership. It only will disrupt small groups. But thats where the tennant system can work since this still enables a group of 4 players to maintain a house.

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Aside from new worlds, it would be absolutely impossible to do that in a personal ward, plus that would be very unfair because personal housing is extremely limited, even on new worlds, some wards are already full or close to full, that would be abusing the system and taking plots from others, however FC housing has more than enough availability with over a thousand plots available (if not more) including mediums and smalls. Abuse would mean there is ill intent behind it, while in my case at least, I wont talk for others, but for me there isnt, I just enjoy what I do.

Also Ragnarok has many houses still available in empy FC wards I am pretty sure. I even verified right now and ward 3 subdivision is almost entirely empty, same goes for ward 4 and ward 5 and the rest as well. There is more than enough availability.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Player housing was a mistake.

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I own a small, personal house and I think this sometimes. ｡ﾟ(TヮT)ﾟ｡
To add, it was also a mistake to add ways to monetize FCs with airships and submarines.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Abuse would mean there is ill intent behind it, while in my case at least, I wont talk for others, but for me there isnt, I just enjoy what I do.

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Ill intent is not a requirement. Its just using something in a way it is not intended. And even without ill intent, abuse can still be a problem. Just because its possible and from your perspective doesnt harm anyone does not mean you should do it (in traffic we see this too often).

A lot of exploits in single player games are still 'abusing a system'. Even if that can just improve the quality of a game and you arent hurting anyone with it.

But the issue is not about 'now', its about the future. Those wards can slowly fill up, but once that happens. Your FC house in which you are the only owner is now a problem because you abused the system.

Hence you are part of the problem.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I own a small, personal house and I think this sometimes. ｡ﾟ(TヮT)ﾟ｡
To add, it was also a mistake to add ways to monetize FCs with airships and submarines.

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This is the biggest issue, remove submarines or nerf them to oblivion, and multiowners will go poof, at least those who's only intent is to make gil out of houses. There is an extremely tiny minority of people like me who just enjoy housing as their main activity but the numbers are so small it wouldnt matter, 99% of multiowners have multiple houses for submarines.

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Ill intent is not a requirement. Its just using something in a way it is not intended. And even without ill intent, abuse can still be a problem. Just because its possible and from your perspective doesnt harm anyone does not mean you should do it (in traffic we see this too often).

A lot of exploits in single player games are still 'abusing a system'. Even if that can just improve the quality of a game and you arent hurting anyone with it.

But the issue is not about 'now', its about the future. Those wards can slowly fill up, but once that happens. Your FC house in which you are the only owner is now a problem because you abused the system.

Hence you are part of the problem.

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As I said above, in the case of EU, the wards are not filling up at all, at least in empy, there are so many plots available still after 15 lottery rounds, hundreds of smalls are still available and a few mediums.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

As I said above, in the case of EU, the wards are not filling up at all, at least in empy, there are so many plots available still after 15 lottery rounds, hundreds of smalls are still available and a few mediums.

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All personal wards are full with maybe a few free houses that opened up. The reason empy isnt is because luckily most people arent egoistic and make a shell FC just for a house (or they simply cant). The other wards are full because they were already occupied before the lottery system.

While FC wards arent full, that doesnt mean you should take them as individual. These wards should be moved towards the individual pool instead. Now you might think you are just a single person on that, but you arent. It can easily be several wards worth of players thinking that way. And those players together probably caused only ward 10 and onward to be moved to the individual pool isntead of ward 7 and onward. Therefor denying a lot of players an equal chance.

Your greed is therefor part of the issue by not accepting equal chances. You actively exploited the system for own greed and disrupted the chances for others (you think you didnt, but you did). The amount of lottery cycles is irrelevant since SE had to act on that information, but because of your greed (and of many others) could reliably do so. Those cycles are needed to finetune the system. Those wards that are not filling up should have been moved to the individual pool, rather than individuals exploiting the system, and only then should you have tried to go for a house with equal chances. And now because they are fuller than what they should have been, that moving takes even longer.

So on that, my solution would actualy be the proper one. And if that results you into getting kicked out (or forced into paying 3 more subscriptions), it is even a well deserved punishment for exploiting the system. You actively have disrupted legit bidders from getting a bigger pool of houses.