Petition to Remove Classes & Just Have Jobs

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Originally Posted by Sortis

Yeah I mean the jobs are what make it Final Fantasy, they've been here since FF1. They tried somethin new and it didn't work out. Would you rather play a Lancer or a Dragoon? I mean all the new content is tiered toward jobs at this point anyway, the only thing you do with a class is solo aside from a few other things anyway.

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You're talking about soloing as if it's some negligible thing.

A sizeable chunk of the initial playerbase for FFXIV was drawn to it because of its advertised ability to accommodate solo and party play alike. Much of these players have been disappointed along the way due to soloing becoming more difficult with successive patches. The new class/job system seeks to restore that balance of being able to cater to both, and the system is still being fleshed out.

So no, soloing isn't something that should just be dismissed. The class system is what needs to cater to the crowd that likes to solo.

Here's what I think should happen:
When you ding 30, you can gain experience, but you're locked at that level. You are then told you must do this mandatory quest which turns out to be the first quest to get your soul. Then the class BECOMES the job. You can still use Second Wind and Stoneskin. You're just this great new person with a new place in the world, with new abilities, that just ascended from being a "standard class" to a "Job!".

In a perfect world, here's what should have happened:
Squeenix made many more jobs. When you ding 30, you get to chose which of the 2... or even 3! jobs you want to be. Then you are specialized and don't feel bummed because the job doesn't suit your needs and you just wish you didn't waste all that precious time. The choice is reversible. It only costs YOUR SOUL! Problem with that system is that it's counter everything that FF MMOs are. So it's a dumb idea that should be disregarded.

Oh wait... I'd like to add BEING ABLE TO USE DIFFERENT WEAPONS to the "in a perfect world" list. Sucks to be a "Daggeradin" or a "Paddladin". I also don't believe the gladiators we know fight with paddles, just sayin'.

The armory and job system combination is one of the most remarkable systems I've ever played. Just having jobs is kinda stupid. There are so many infinite possiblitys with the armory + job systems.

The Armory system:
Allows you to change class on the go, a wonderful mechanic if you ask me.
Classes are a type of "Freelancer" with their own attack styles, I think if they clashed in PVP you'd find it to be pretty balanced. Jobs, not so much.
Keeps from type clutter, and what I mean by this is having too many class archetypes (DD, Tank, Healer) Consider Conjurer. It is no doubt THE healer. The job white mage maximizes its status as a healer. Now consider something such as summoner (with supporting pet class skills). Basing in conjurer allows the summoner to be a mid-great healer (or DD) with a pet on the side. Both jobs being based in cnj can heal, just they optimized for different roles. And we didn't have to make a whole new class to do it.

The Job system:
Allows for group specialization.
Once enough jobs are introduced, it will truly allow players to find their "niche" in a party.
People CAN solo on jobs if that is their preference, but in my opinion you have more solo survivability as a freelanced class.

My thoughts are is how many jobs will they add by the end, alot I hope. And will EVERY class get a new job when new ones come out?

I would like to see classes kept; simply for the reason that we do not no what content is going to be implemented. I love MNK, but if a Besieged type event were to be added you can bet I would go PUG since I would have access to abilities like cure, stoneskin, raise, and the list goes on. So to call for the abandonment of classes at this point, I feel, would be short sighted.

So the advantage of a LNC compared to a DRG is that he uses Abilities from other classes - but is this really what we want? I personally like the possibility of choosing a few abilities of another class - I don't want 8 people in my dungeon that are able to ressurect - it feels wrong.

I'd prefer a sub-job-like system where you can choose one other class which you are able to pick a few abilities from.

All i have to say BLM sucks @ soloing THM does not. BLM does more dmg than THM cause freeze lowers your hate and thus lets you cast more spells worry free... I think they got it right GJ SE.

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Originally Posted by MizoreShirayuki

Greetings!

As many of you know, the introduction of the Job system has brought focus to an unfocused system. Yet that focus has also brought with it a sense of redundancy.

Why should anyone go PGL when they can go MNK? Why should anyone go GLA PLD when there's GLA? The need for classes anymore, even for solo play, just isn't there (PLD excluded from this statement).

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Simple Stoneskin & cure & protect & sentinal & rampart ~ the list goes on

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Originally Posted by Firon

All i have to say BLM sucks @ soloing THM does not. BLM does more dmg than THM cause freeze lowers your hate and thus lets you cast more spells worry free... I think they got it right GJ SE.

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LOL blm is better at soloing because of sleep/sleepaga.

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Originally Posted by Inaaca

So no, soloing isn't something that should just be dismissed. The class system is what needs to cater to the crowd that likes to solo.

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Exactly, I solo all the time and find it frustrating that certain quests require a group to play, but accept that this being an MMO it would be kind of ridiculous if there was no multiplayer content. Jobs close a lot of doors that are necessary in solo play, does anyone actually solo without protect cast on them at all times?

I'm not criticising the job system, it is a great idea for group play making assigned roles clearer and individuals more powerful in that given role, but outside of group play? I'll stick to the class system thanks.

Having both a Class and Job system creates unnecessary complexity. And complex does not necessarily mean better.

Try explaining to a newcomer how the class-job system works, in terms of cross-class action restrictions, gear restrictions, class restrictions, level prerequisites etc..

It can be done, to be sure, but you begin to realise that it is not a very elegant system.

I understand that some people like the option to fall back to their class, so they can access things like Raise, Cure, Sentinel, etc. But to be honest, it feels more like a crutch than anything. If the only reason people want classes still is to have these sorts of survival abilities for situational encounters or for soloing, then the problem is more to do with how the job is designed and not the lack of classes.
All jobs should be designed with some solo sustainability baked into their skill set. It should not have to be borrowed from another job. Likewise, an encounter should not be balanced in such a way that X and Y spell are required or make an encounter trivial.

By abolishing the Class system, you make the system a lot more clear-cut. You can give the jobs more identity and flexibility because you are not weighed down by having to make the job conform to the class. Just say you want to add Summoner, Thief, Samurai, Ninja, Musketeer Jobs to the game. You are forced to either create a whole new class to make them fit into the world's lore. Or attach them onto existing Classes. Creating even more complexity.

If you were to add a new Job to an existing class E.g. ARC can become a RNG or BRD. This means that you are essentially creating little extra content for a high production cost. Let me explain. Using the "Archer can become a Ranger or Bard" example. You would need to create job specific gear, quests, abilities (as you would have to do either way), but for those that already have ARC to 50, they would essentially be given 2-3 hours worth of extra content? By abolishing classes, it means that sure you would have to create more abilities and more weapon assets, but it would ultimately mean players are getting content equal to the time it takes to level up from 1-50 plus all the previously mentioned content. Some people say that leveling up is not considered content, but I disagree. I have always enjoyed leveling up in FF games. I know a few people who said that they wanted to leave all their characters at 30 for 1.21 so that they could experience leveling up to 50 as the job, and not the class.

Abolishing Jobs also solves the issue of Class/Jobs for DoH and DoL. Since all DoL and DoH could just be transitioned over to Jobs, and they could just then add additional DoL and DoH as they saw fit. Not being forced to feel as though they had to create "Angler" or "Master Tailor" just for the sake of giving all classes Jobs.