Bard in FF14 is so much like Hunter without Pet in Ragnarok Online

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I've read through this thread multiple times trying to find this argument, and I don't see it anywhere. Mind actually quoting it?

Regardless, with FFLogs switching to rDPS, padding matters less and less.



This just proves that you haven't been reading the arguments, because in none of them have posters claimed they care about their personal damage nor are they saying DNC should be better than BRD.

I don't care whether my job has a place or not because I'm not a meta slave, and my static doesn't want me to be. I care that the physical ranged are all equally balanced without scales tipping in favor of one over the other three (which, has been the tendency for the last two years - BRD was blatantly favored over MCH throughout SB). As it stands currently, the three are closer to one another than the physical ranged ever have been.

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And you haven't been reading the formulae and the things I have said. I do not need to read yours. You were even insisting that DNC don't give as much dmg buffs as bard do without even knowing the equations. LOL

You talked about scholar getting skills back, but it was just Energy Drain. A quality of life offensive skill. And compared it to Foe Requiem. A damage debuff.

I can’t speak for Samurai though, as I am not too familiar with them. But their changes were in response to community perception that Samurai was too weak for a class with no utility, especially compared to monk and dragoon.

Either way, it seems like we were arguing about different things this whole time. But something concerns me. You are okay with sacrificing some damage to het some support back. That is okay. But what support exactly? Given the poor state of support in general now, I am hesitant to throw my lot in with that mentality.

You say we argue because we only care about our personal DPS or our place compared to Dancer. But you’re arguing because you’re concerned about some arbitrary flavor in playing style compared to Dancer, which isn’t much different. Thing is, I want some of the support flavor back too, but I don’t see it being possible without either completely breaking the balance between all three ranged, or Bard falls behind in actual gameplay contribution due to the support tax, just to satisfy people’s varying perceptions of flavor in playing style.

(There’s a reason pure ice mages are ridiculed.)

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

You talked about scholar getting skills back, but it was just Energy Drain. A quality of life offensive skill. And compared it to Foe Requiem. A damage debuff.

I can’t speak for Samurai though, as I am not too familiar with them. But their changes were in response to community perception that Samurai was too weak for a class with no utility, especially compared to monk and dragoon.

Either way, it seems like we were arguing about different things this whole time. But something concerns me. You are okay with sacrificing some damage to het some support back. That is okay. But what support exactly? Given the poor state of support in general now, I am hesitant to throw my lot in with that mentality.

You say we argue because we only care about our personal DPS or our place compared to Dancer. But you’re arguing because you’re concerned about some arbitrary flavor in playing style compared to Dancer, which isn’t much different. Thing is, I want some of the support flavor back too, but I don’t see it being possible without either completely breaking the balance between all three ranged, or Bard falls behind in actual gameplay contribution due to the support tax, just to satisfy people’s varying perceptions of flavor in playing style.

(There’s a reason pure ice mages are ridiculed.)

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The mess we are in right now is their fault tbh. I'm just here to rant what they did. Hagakure is for their symbols to be converted to fill up their gauge, which also pays to cast abilities like Guren.
Well, we do wayy too much personal DPS in order to balance out the lost aesthetic, utilities and dmg buffs.


Since they already give so much offense buff to DNC, perhaps we can dodge to all utility/defensive buffs instead. We should have our own version of Troubadour too.

Buddy this isn't rocket science. If Dancer does 9000 DPS by himself and gives 1200 DPS to the raid in the form of buffs, dancer is contributing 10200 rDPS to the raid.

If Bard does 10300 DPS by himself and gives 500 DPS to the raid in the form of buffs, bard is contributing 10500 rDPS to the raid.

Everything you're saying about aDPS literally doesn't matter, aDPS is a metric that can't be compared to rDPS because it literally removes damage, aDPS is meant to ignore any gains from single target buffs and that gain isn't applied to anyone (unlike the rDPS metric which redistributes it), it's straight up removed. aDPS is just there so you can compare yourself to other people of the same job without it being dependent on your singlet target buff partner playing well, by removing it completely.

Now that we established that rDPS is the only metric that matters for this discussion, in the hypothetical numbers I gave above, Bard's 10500 total rDPS would be bigger than Dancer's 10300 total rDPS.

The actual numbers aren't too far off from the hypothetical according to the site

https://i.imgur.com/HJfUxYj.png

Not only is bard ahead of dancer, bard doesn't depend as much on other people making proper use of their buffs, dancer's rdps will tank if people are dying or playing badly.

I'm a new player and I don't know much about the complicated min maxy stuff but I'm enjoying the class as is and I hope they don't change it anytime soon. :)

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Buddy this isn't rocket science. If Dancer does 9000 DPS by himself and gives 1200 DPS to the raid in the form of buffs, dancer is contributing 10200 rDPS to the raid.

If Bard does 10300 DPS by himself and gives 500 DPS to the raid in the form of buffs, bard is contributing 10500 rDPS to the raid.

Everything you're saying about aDPS literally doesn't matter, aDPS is a metric that can't be compared to rDPS because it literally removes damage, aDPS is meant to ignore any gains from single target buffs and that gain isn't applied to anyone (unlike the rDPS metric which redistributes it), it's straight up removed. aDPS is just there so you can compare yourself to other people of the same job without it being dependent on your singlet target buff partner playing well, by removing it completely.

Now that we established that rDPS is the only metric that matters for this discussion, in the hypothetical numbers I gave above, Bard's 10500 total rDPS would be bigger than Dancer's 10300 total rDPS.

The actual numbers aren't too far off from the hypothetical according to the site

https://i.imgur.com/HJfUxYj.png

Not only is bard ahead of dancer, bard doesn't depend as much on other people making proper use of their buffs, dancer's rdps will tank if people are dying or playing badly.

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The job that was meant to inspire and buff other people like before? Yes, the difference of the damage from giving dmg to the party members, next.

monk should have asura strike in FF14 like they do in RO then.