I don’t play tank, so I don’t think I can have a fragile tank ego or anything, but imo it’s rude to pull for the tank regardless of how easy it is for the tank to take Aggro back. I don’t care if your timers are ticking down and you think the dungeon will take .324 seconds longer to complete because your buff wore off because the tank didn’t pull fast enough, if you aren’t the tank then your job is not to pull, end of story.
Pulling the bosses In dungeons as DPS a thing now?
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07-14-2019, 05:59 AMTempest222
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07-14-2019, 06:10 AMAwhaI mean it really is not the end of the story since tank mains here say otherwise so clearly there are degrees to the situation and it is not as simple as tank sets the pace so deal with it. As a dps you do not have to blindly follow what a tank does. You are just as important as the tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest222
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07-14-2019, 06:10 AMLannybabyWell, tanks can't read these people's minds. 99% of the time, they say nothing and just face-pull then blame me for not being fast enough. Are tanks just the beast of burden people can jerk around?Quote:
Originally Posted by Awha
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07-14-2019, 06:24 AMAwhaTo be fair tanks in this game jerk around the other roles with their you pull you tank it mindset, willing to risk a wipe to simply prove a point. Though sure as a tank would be nice if people spoke up, but I am sure we can infer what a group wants by their actions. Well this group keeps running on ahead then maybe I am going to slow. At that point either adapt and apologize for going slow or I leave. I tend to miss readQuote:
Originally Posted by Lannybaby
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07-14-2019, 06:55 AMAtreides
If a DPS pulls just suck it up and do your job, whether you like it or not, it is you griefing your group if you let the DPS handle the mob instead of just tanking it which takes no efford whatsoever.
Some people just need to stop being entitled, you are not better than them. -
07-14-2019, 07:09 AMdragoeleteum no theres multiple points of veiw on this. for the dps yeah the y might feel like they were griefed. for the healer they prolly feel its a pain in the butt. as for the tank they just might not feel confidant on tanking more mobs than they are(if there a new player, undergeared, or maybe there ping is bad). or in boss pulls maybe something ended up distracting them like maybe there family suddenly called on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atreides
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07-14-2019, 07:26 AMLannybabyThe ego behind this comment is baffling...Quote:
Originally Posted by Atreides
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07-14-2019, 07:41 AMLyth
A lot of this reflects a shift in the mindset of MMOs.
Historically, tanking was your most valued role. You had one MT for your 40 person group, and they had to be your most reliable and most geared player. If you failed the mitigation check, you failed the fight.
Tanking is also the most interconnected role in the trinity. Because what you do impacts everyone in the group, your success depends on how you interact with and read/meet the needs of your teammates. It requires a decent amount of social intelligence.
Modern MMOs have realised two things: first, that the average player who pays your sub plays dps, and second, players paradoxically often don't have time for social interactions and prefer to treat this like a massively multiplayer single player game. DPS is the best role to do this with. LFG and jump into a group of 7 faceless players, maximise your dps output, and shout and scream at anyone who dares to invade your single player game filled with single player expectations. Who needs a community?
That's why we've seen a switch. Gear goes to dps first. New jobs? We don't have time to make a new healer, we need more dps. There are three different dps "roles", in contrast to one tank group and one healer group. That's also why it's now relatively rare to see an actual "tanking check" or "healing check", simply because four out of the eight players have neither the patience nor the tolerance to wait around with progression through that. And dps numbers are now very deliberately inflated so that a skilled tank or healer generally isn't going to accidentally embarrass an under-performing dps player.
At the end of the day, though, you can't change the fact that MMO trinities intrinsically have more responsibility and teamwork built into tanking and healing. So the next time you find yourself on a dps job preening over your artificially inflated damage numbers, find yourself backseat tanking, or find yourself complaining about the lack of adequate healing as you deliberately fail mechanics to get off more GCDs to compensate for otherwise terrible uptime, remember this: your tank and your healer knows full well that they can kill you at any time, and they're probably fantasising about it as we speak.
I mean, we love you, you single-handedly carry the team, and you're entitled to first pick on all the weapon drops. -
07-14-2019, 10:42 AMIntellionQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyth
My thoughts, exactly. You worded it much better than I could.
For all the cocky DPS out there who still are baffled why tanks and healers have more power over the party than they, look no further.
It's because by nature, tanks and healers have a lot more responsibility than DPS roles, and making a mistake as any of those two classes are much more damning than messing up as a DPS.
Tanks have to protect the party by properly managing their pulls or positioning. If they bite off more than they can chew, the party is overwhelmed and dies.
Healers have to keep the party alive and fix everyone's mistakes. Just like the tanks, if they are pushed beyond their limits, the party dies.
The DPS... just have to kill stuff. If they are overwhelmed... oh wait, they don't have to worry about that as long as the tanks protect them. If they mess up... the healer covers them.
While they are still a needed role in the party, by nature, they do not have as much influence nor responsibility as tanks and healers.
Therefore, a class that does not have to bear such burdens simply has no right to act like THEY dictate the flow of a dungeon run. This is why tanks and healers have always had the final say in how a party is run, because it is THEY who have to keep the party alive. To think otherwise would be sheer arrogance, and this is coming from a former career DPS. As a DPS, if you deliberately overwhelm your tanks and your healers for your own selfish reasons, either by pulling more mobs that you have no business pulling, or by going "MUH DEEPS!" and failing mechanics over and over to the point where the healer has to divert their healing from the tank to you, then YOU are a bad DPS, and if the tanks/healers snap at you, you deserve it 100%.
Also, due to the queue times, if a tank and healer leaves or is kicked by the DPS, they can just requeue and immediately find a new group. If a DPS quits or is kicked, they have to wait for a long time again. Meaning, DPS are easily replacable; tanks and healers are not. So by all means, go ahead and piss off your tank and healer with your selfishness; in the end, it is THEY who will always win since by nature, you as a DPS is disposable and easily replacable. Like it or not, that's just how the class trinity works.
Not to mention, as others have said, tanks and healers have the ability to end a DPS' life at will. It's just most of them choose not to do so out of restraint.
But all it takes is one Shirk or one deliberately unused healing spell/revive, and a DPS' temper tantrum immediately goes away, and trust me, I know this from experience.
And those are exactly why the DPS should learn their place.
They are not useless. They are needed in a party,
But no matter how much they deny it, they do not have the same level of importance nor influence nor responsiblity as a tank or healer. -
07-14-2019, 10:56 AMSaberMaxwell
All of this makes me glad I have a static, I don't have to deal with any role's entitlement. Dungeons are easy enough that no role is important (defined here as "Can't complete the dungeon without), and as you go up in the totem pole all roles become vital. End of the day, the group is a team: in any content where one role isn't vital, it's probable that no roles are vital. The reverse is true: try playing like DPS don't matter in Ultimate. Good luck surviving Morn Afah without the DPS' help mitigating for instance.
Oh Van Arn, where art thou?