turbo controllers the new bot crafting?

I do all of my crafting leveling while browsing the internet, just clicking back when I hear the ding of the synth. It would be incredibly easy to miss any sort of GM tell, as they can get lost in the chat log in the 5 seconds a single synth step can take, and would be effectively impossible if you're always on the battle tab like me.

Also, the idea that a turbo controller is the same as a bot is ludicrous. It's not a third party application, and in no way messes with or reads the code or system memory. It's no different from someone just jamming on the enter button while they carry they do something else, like play a game on their phone, and is completely indistinguishable. If SE started banning for this, it'd be banning people for having gardening alts all over again.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

yeah players have no say in wether or not your a bot, they dont need reasons to report you

but a bot is a player who is automated in the end, playing while afk(not at computer or having a control do it for them etc etc)

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The part where I wanted you to start! "...a bot is a player who is automated...", wich means usage of third party tools, also know has software! Wich leads to the important part of me saying "...to read Sherman Antitrust Act (Sherman Act,[1] July 2, 1890, ch. 647, 26 Stat. 209, 15 U.S.C. §§ 1–7) [USA] or Article 101 of the Treaty [EU] and Article 102 of the Treaty [EU]. To understand why there is no definition of terms regarding botting or automation software. And a bit of information for consumers rights." Regarding that a turbo controller or personalized keyboards are in fact HARDWARE. And the fact that FFXIV is playable by PC, for now, and then playable by PS3, didn't occur to you and problably everyone else that posted, are reading, will post or even moderators. That after you read all those laws you and problably everyone else with some interpretation knowledge you will notice parts on the terms that mislead to assumptions in the SE policy of User Agreement, I believe that someone already posted a small part of it in this thread. But the point is a companie that makes, lets say, a personalized keyboard for multyple player role playing game, "unknow person" buy it, after play a few hours gets a GM /tell (GM: you have been banned for using HARDWARE considered to be a third party tool! If you have any objections please direct your concerns in a form to "impossible to acess web page/SE offices address in foreign country". thank you and have a nice day.) "unknow person" ( HUH!? but i just bought this keyboard a few hours ago!) " goes to the shop reclaims the money for the product in a form discriminating the reason and the events that lead him to reclaim the money from purchase. The company that manufactured the personalized keyboard gets the letter, and checks the name of the game on wich made him give up on their own product, what you guys think that will happen? They put them in a blist ( wich will put FFXIV in a special list in the market ), or go on a lawsuit because of these babies: (Sherman Antitrust Act (Sherman Act,[1] July 2, 1890, ch. 647, 26 Stat. 209, 15 U.S.C. §§ 1–7) [USA] or Article 101 of the Treaty [EU] and Article 102 of the Treaty [EU])

And yes this is all assumptions, just like you all people do in these forums without talking about serious matters. But they all are still a fact! SE can't, yes, it can't put on the policy terms of user agreement the non use of specific HARDWARE, like turbo controllers or personalized keyboards, because they will meet lawsuits from hardware companies all over the world that sees they products been rejected with those same policy terms of user agreement from SE.

Note: if it is still hard to understand all those, even with that small assumption theatre, go google and look for examples of major lawsuits based on Sherman Act, Article 101 and 102 of the Treaty.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

watching tv isnt one of these things, but using it as an excuse to not respond to ANYTHING AT ALL is unfortunately not a good reason if you get banned for it, they wont accept that obviously


and i use the watching tv thing as an example cuz we all do it in some form or another, hell you can do it while fighting, gathering, anything, you dont need a turbo control, or to even be crafting to watch tv on the side

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I'm gonna repeat myself again (sarcasm).

Note: It's obvious that watching tv is an excuse but it's not plausable to GM's because they do research before banning anyone, wich leads to mass reports, observation, intervencion and conclusion. Those steps are the path of a GM before taking any action against a "player".
If you are not paying attention to the game, its because you are not enjoying it. The development team will be offended and heart breaked. And I say this without being sarcastic in any kind of way, I say it in a form of comprehension of their hard work for making this game nad trying to make it enjoyable the most possible way.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

in the end though players have no say in who gets banned, and in determining who is a bot or not(besides maybe reporting people, but reporting does not mean they are actualy bots, the player doesnt get to decide that, and this fact is lost on alot of people)
the people you will care about messaging you are actual GMs, and you will know who they are, they wont hide it from you, and as i said, im sure youll respond to them

also how the hell am i lookin for witches lol, i dont think you understand my stance on all this
im against witch hunts, but facts are facts

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They have no say, but they mindless point their fingers randomly. That's why I call this, a mindless repetition thread and a witch hunt!

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

if you cant respond to a gm cuz you arent paying attention, you obviously are botting
if you are just ignoring people cuz you dont want to respond to them, all the more power to you(you have the ability to respond to GMs still in this case, since they are the only ones you need to respond to if contacted)

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But off course, and I wouldn't know the procedures mentioned above without asking them.



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If you asked how FFXIV development team should treat crafting. I would say... remove the exp reward or any type of form of leveling from DoH, and you wont be able to make any type of recipe without doing repeated quests to gain those same recipes in a lower % gain. and make specific npc's or just one in each city for each grade of I - II - III - IV - V recipes, in wich grade consists the same recipes used from 0-10 (I) and so on until 40-50 (V). In the case of HQ/NQ items usage or crafted, they should keep the same last window that is used to perform an HQ item with the required stamina points and quality of materials.

Wouldn't that solve the issue?

The problem isn't turbo controllers, programmable controllers, or even bots. The problem is that the crafting process we currently have is insanely boring. While I like the idea of a more involved crafting system, what we've been given is a monstrosity that not even trained monkeys can enjoy.

While I appreciate the recipe refinements and food overhaul coming soon, what we REALLY need is a complete redo of the crafting minigame.

Hello,

When crafting I often having have my little finger hitting the enter key all the time while watching TV or day-dreaming or something. I hope this does not mean I'm a bot, as that is a lifestyle choice I was not prepared to make, and will need deep counselling.

I also can not always see messages (chat windows are small as I play on laptop and try to reserve space for scenery), and the messages from crafting fill it up each time. Will this mean I will get in trouble?

I also do not have the sound on a lot. The music is beautiful, but after 4 hours of the same tune non-stop, it starts to get a bit tiresome, so I listen to different things.

I'm hoping this is not a case of 1984 where I have to stare at the screen at all times or be in trouble.

Also, when fighting... I do similiar things. When levelling up Archer solo I would go after those big flowers that take a while to kill but hardly do damage. I would just F10, then 1-1-1-1-1-1, repeat. Often I would not always pay attention to screen. Does this mean I will get in trouble?

I sometimes turn off my chat logs (or switch to the log that shows only battle information and not talk messages), and forget to switch back. Will this mean I will get in trouble if someone sends me a tell and I did not respond?

I'm hoping that I do not get in trouble because I do not have appropriately sized chat log screens with the right filters set and my eyes on them at all time, lest I miss a message. That would make me very sad indeed.

And if 'botting' is such a problem, why not make crafting/gathering more involved. Why design it to specifically work best by simply hitting enter-key all the time? Why not make it as involved as battles are? At the very least a system where you XP only during levequests (which are hard to bot), and then craft on your own not for XP but because you want to make something? (Of course, the levequest system would need to change so we could do as many as we want for crafting).

I'm hoping if anyone gets in trouble for crafting it will only be those who are clearly seen to be bots beyond all reasonable doubt (character does nothing but craft, no skills in other jobs, 24 hours a day for days at a time non-stop).

Anyways, sorry to take up your time with another (possibly pointless) message. I'm going to go back to hitting the enter key now.

Thank you.

It doesnt matter if they change the order.. U have macro keyboards as well.. that can do intervalls.. like press down then enter.. so i guess thats why SE doesnt bother

i think DardGhalawad has some great points, and that TheVedis needs to get of there high horse.

I'll mass make shards when I watch the news, Conan, The Tonight Show, Colbert. I don't even pay attention to the game and for the most part don't even look at my screen. So by TheVedis thoughts if a GM goes to talk to me and I miss the text in the chat window, I should get banned and not care since I don't care about the game.... Again get off your high horse, I like the game I play with others. Just because I hate the fact that crafting is boring as hell and I don't pay attention while doing it, Doesn't mean I should get banned if I don't reply to someone. (Hell I have Conan on one screen, I'm pressing the "A" button on my controller non-stop with the game on another screen, and I'm typing this with my other hand, on my other system. And you think I'm watching the screen with FF on it?)

Crafting for hours isn't content and it does needs to be fixed.

When I'm trying to level up my crafting skills since it's "OH, so FUN", I make sure I have the mats I need to make something a few hundred times, I make the first one, and then I keep hitting the "A" button on my controller to make the rest and then I watch something on my other screen/tv so I'm not board as hell.

I didn't even know getting a controller with "Auto Fire" was an option, until I came across this on the forms!

One thing I find funny is that the official Black controller ( http://www.japantrendshop.com/elecom...ad-p-1265.html ) has an auto button. I did do some digging and it does make any of the buttons go on auto. So hit it once and it'll spam that button, press it again and it'll stop. So if this isn't allowed Square Enix REALLY needs to get there act together for allowing a company to make an Official controller that breaks the rules.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

you cant make that an excuse for botting, it still doesnt fly


i dont think you understand whats going on

it is ok to use a turbo control

BUT

it is not ok to leave it on while afk

there is a big difference that seperates the 2 and people cant justify botting by stating "se lets us do it"

in the end, the terms of service flat out say you cant do it, and thats the bottom line

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So basically, if I sit down and watch tv, while my turbo controller spams 'X' and I arrange my chat logs so that every /tell goes in a different window (where it doesn't get lost in the middle of crfting logging) and I give it a look every 4-5 mins to check for GM tells I am legit.

It is all up to chat logs arranging!

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Originally Posted by Gospel

*adds to list*

How to Troll FFXIV Forums 101

-Something FFXI related
-Speak in third person
-Time attack
-Bad grammar
"-Turbo Controllers"
-Talking about other MMO's
-RMT
-Player parameters

and the best way to troll out of all them.

-Stating our own personal opinions.

This thread is amazing by the way.

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/...sonPopcorn.gif

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I did not in any way attempt to troll these forums with this post. I was hoping to get a DEv post on if this was acceptable or not. I also wanted to bring up a thread so others could discuss this subject. I was in an ls who banned all botters but didn't ban people for afking durring work, sleep etc. with their turbo controllers on. So, I brought it to the ls leader. The ls leader said his hands were tied because it is not clearly stated. I stated my opinion to him and left the ls because I did not want to be grouped in with those whom I felt were botters. If a dev posts and say's your opinion is moot to me ok I will suck it up, shut up, and deal with it. But if they say that afking while a turbo controller bots for you I will inform said ls leader and send him a link as proof. He said he doesn't want botters in his ls and I think that rule should apply to those who afk for extended periods of times while they craft. Afk as in not there spamming enter not those whom watch a video or browse te internet because they might not have the game up but they are still are at the computer. Yes, my opinion might be stupid but they're still at the computer. My problem is with those who are sleep crafting/etc.

Offtopic: How do one request a GM?

Double offtopic: All of my icons are showing up in japanese even though I am in the english forums anyone know how I can swap them back to english?

Your post is fine and is very much needed right now. I was just being an ass with my post. Matters like these are delicate and usually lead to entertaining results, even if the topic creator had good intentions.

People need to start worrying about more important stuff

I don't care about bots or Turbo Crafting till it doesn't bug me.

In FFXI i hated bot claim because it was altering the others game. But Turbo Crafting it doesn't change my game so i dont care