New 12 dollar emote should have been a Eureka reward!

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

The team doing cash shop items and the team doing ingame things are separate. Porting old ingame stuff to the cashshop is a one way street. The cash shop team will never develop an item for use ingame unfortunately. That emote was likely conceived and developed specifically for the cash shop and while it'd be nice if everyone got it free, it's not something they'd have had the dev time and resources to develop in the first place.

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This is such a weak argument based on the fact that dev team has said they are short staffed. I also have seen very little proof that the cash shop employees handle all aspects of the cash shop and no other employee is involved. I have also seen no proof that cash shop consistently has allowed the game to grow in content. We get the same or less now.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

If there wasn't a profitable reason for them to do so, the team running the cash shop would never have been hired or funded and those items never would have been conceptualized or realized. You're under the false assumption that they decide AFTER the item is made to make it cash shop or not. You are asking for more work for the same money from the same amount of people. That's the discrepancy.

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Again you keep posting that the cash shop employees handle everything. Do you honestly believe that they handle everything and take no production hours away from anything else? I could be wrong, but I doubt they have extra people to just patch cash shop items into the game, or it happens like magic.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

It is call a business for a reason and spending cash is up to the consumer. Why do people lack the most basic of concepts to any service and can't gasp that they are there to make money,it is not a charity service. Blaming the company is just childish to begin with.

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Why do people who defend companies lack the common sense of comparative shopping? Also some people have a limit onto what they will consider appropriate value. EA wouldn't be in so much crap if they had the fans SE had. The threshold for being abused as customers are so much higher. Martin Shkreli, had the fans SE had.


I think this would end if they just stepped up and reworked the cash shop to Kupo nuts. And you can buy X amount of Kupo Nuts for X amount or gil or X amount of dollars players choice. In comparison to most other MMOs F2P or B2P or sub SE is taking as much as the whales will give.

In the cash shop you get the emote SE gets money and you have fewer people spamming this emote all over places like eureka... win/win/win...?

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

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In your example
In begining : there was only the sub to go in and do gym
then = they added stuff to buy

for MMORPG
in begnining : there was a sub to get EVERYTHING
then : you pay a sub, AND part of content (aesthetic content there) are in cash shop

In the first example, they added anything to their services
in the second, they did change the service

Lets take an example : Nightclub

Now : you pay to enter, then you can dance as much as you want, and you have to buy the drinks.
Then : you pay to enter, speak to people and buy drinks, BUT you have to pay to go on the dancefloor.
It is ok everyone would say it is scandalous, silly. And if most nightclub does it, people will say "ok... fuck me deep, ill pay"


For FFXIV, the cash shop is that now, you need to pay to go on the dancefloor.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Why do people who defend companies lack the common sense of comparative shopping? Also some people have a limit onto what they will consider appropriate value. EA wouldn't be in so much crap if they had the fans SE had. The threshold for being abused as customers are so much higher. Martin Shkreli, had the fans SE had.


I think this would end if they just stepped up and reworked the cash shop to Kupo nuts. And you can buy X amount of Kupo Nuts for X amount or gil or X amount of dollars players choice. In comparison to most other MMOs F2P or B2P or sub SE is taking as much as the whales will give.

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Cash shops are optional and like many other companies out there they use real money rather than multiple steps of using real money to convert to some other game currency to then use to buy stuff in game,the only difference is that they use Real money instead of going around it. While in game currency does have benefits and you are able to get items that ARE NOT available in cash shops, people who can't understand the simple number one reason that a business exist are just naive or uneducated about the business world. It does not take a college education to understand the meaning of the word.

Business; The activity of buying and selling commodities, products, or services.

While I sympathize with all perspectives the bottom line is that SE, like any other successful business, has a product that is high in demand. WE AS CONSUMERS HAVE A CHOICE. We who have resources are free to spend it on what we want, those who don't...get a job, look for a better job, save your allowance, stop whining and look for a way.

This is not a F2B or B2P service. There for that should give you the biggest hint on why cash shops exist.

Same issue with why SE demolishes homes, pay to play, take a break know how it works, gets demolish sucks to be you SE warned you/

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Originally Posted by Aerlana

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Bad analogy, think of it as more of popcorn and drinks at the theatre, when you go purchase the initial ticket do you opt for popcorn and a drink to make the experience better or do you go without and just enjoy the movie, this is akin to what the cash shop is.

Now if they were to say put savage mode content on a p2p basis, so you pay once a week to access content like savage from the cash shop or even monthly separate from the subscription then yes it would be a greedy cash grab and I don't think even EA is that stupid or greedy, let alone SE.

As I keep saying, yes it sucks because they used to have all these types of things in the game itself but this is reality, no matter how much you hold your breath and stomp your feet, it's not going to change much of anything in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Aerlana

Do you think FFXIV should stay a subscription model ?
Why you think FFXIV is better with a subscription ?

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I also have a question for you to answer.
Why is the gamer expecting all games has a fixed price at $60 USD?
All of our daily consumables are increasing every year because of inflation and development cost has been dramatically increased over the year.
Why all console games must set at price of $60 USD?
The game company can not increase the price of game and also can not sell non-game impact emote on the cash shop to cover their cost.
This is S/E, not the Electronic Arts that nickle and dime players on every in-game features.
What are you thinking?
Especially right after they gave us three high quality emotes only need us to do simple in game quests.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

This is such a weak argument based on the fact that dev team has said they are short staffed. I also have seen very little proof that the cash shop employees handle all aspects of the cash shop and no other employee is involved. I have also seen no proof that cash shop consistently has allowed the game to grow in content. We get the same or less now.

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This is standard practice for most companies. They either have an separate team or reshuffle development teams as the needs demand. For instance, after Mass Effect became certified gold, half the team was split up to begin development on DLC while the other went to a new project entirely. It is likely Yoshida relays suggestions that might sell, but otherwise isn't apart of Cash Shop development. He certainly has no say on the pricing structure as that comes directly from SE. Nor does he get to dictate whether it should or shouldn't be released in a patch. SE undoubtedly mandates a certain quota, which is why people who assume Cash Shop items or DLC would be free if people stopped purchasing them are very naive. They simply wouldn't exist, period.

Complaining about cash shop emotes is silly when SE also provides free emotes in-game. End of the day if it's that important to you buy it otherwise be content with the vast amount of free ones already available, let alone the other free ones we're bound to get in the future.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Why is the gamer expecting all games has a fixed price at $60 USD?[/U][/B]

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Ask the day-1 buyers of FFXV if they paid only 60 :-° *watch to the last pack


And why not answering? only Krotoan did answer my questions, why not you? (if you did, sorry, didnt see, i am ok to a link and read ^^')


BTW, i never considered the prices are "right". I have no matter if tomorrow Yoshida says "now, instead of 15 dollars it will be 18" if we have no more cash shop (or didnt have)

But here is the thing... Square Enix, and many others know one thing.
You create a game and you count it has to be sold 100 dollars instead of 60. BUT the game deserve those $100. Players, and specialized media will scream at horror, say it is scandalous!



So, instead of, they sell it 60 dollars, and prepare season pass, DLC, promotionnal op (like FFXV with sims for example) and so much more. Instead of a 100 fix dollars for a full game, we get a 60 dollars partial game, and so many way to spend more and more.

My problem is cash shop in sub MMORPG (not only in FFXIV) but also season pass, the DLC that are fully announced BEFORE the game release (... so they get the DLC content away from the game)
I prefered when we bought a game, we bought an expansion, we did pay "high price" but one time, not dozen of smaller prices.


My matter is not "they shouldnt make so much profit". In fact, if a company does a wonderfull game, and for $1 invest in the game, they get back $10. I would applause. But no. they try to get as high as possible with those dozen of miniselling, making a mist.

NOBODY here, neither the pro cash shop or anti cash shop havre real proof of how much the cash shop is needed or no to do the FFXIV we have. The mist hide it. maybe you are right, maybe i am. But nothing to clearly say who.
With old system, the devs just had to say "we invest X on the game" "we sold Y of the game" and simple math gave an idea.

I dislike when there is mist. And all those cash shop, season pass and loot boxes are mists.


For now, some PC gamers are crying when a game is $60 and not 40. or an online game with buy to play system (even without cash shop). some thinking all should be F2P with some aesthetic to pay... But this is the mentality i hate most...

I recently bought civ6 expansion, i like civ6 and this expansion. BUT i think this expansion finally doesnt deserve the 30 euros. ok. Not because "30 too much" but because "too much for this" (and more = it is my opinion ^^') I bought GTA5, i was enthousiast enought to buy it 80 or 100 euros (if nothing to pay ... i repeat i prefer the 1 time payment, or subscription when it deserve a sub system)

I never understood why freeze the game prices. Another mistake we did yes.

in the end you said "they added 3 high quality emote, dont cry for 1 emote in cash shop"
50% aesthetic, 10% or 1% in cash shop doesnt totally change the matter, just change how much we are fucked up...


édit : when you pay 1 time, or a subscription, you can think easily "does this game deserve my 10 monthly euros/my 70 euros, etc etc"
but, lets see any cash shop (will use FFXIV as example because we mainly speak about it... but it is the same for ALL)
lets take this emote, $12. let consider 4 more emote come with the same prices. you buy all 5. ok... you spent $60 for 5 emote. The game price you speak about...

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Originally Posted by Mikki

You have to consider the factors here, though. SE is touting the fact that this is one of the most subbed MMOs. They charge $15 per month from most of the player base. On top of this, if you want additional retainers you have to pay monthly for this as well and I can tell you that almost any serious crafter on this game will get some additional retainers. If you get several, it literally DOUBLES your monthly sub. Any in-game past event item is chucked into the mogstation, which honestly should reappear during events as it used to in the past. As I see you've been around for awhile, surely you recall a time when events used to have items from past events for sale at the seasonal merchants. Why not keep doing this? When the event comes back, you get a chance to get the item for free. If you don't wish to wait, you can buy it on the mogstation. I'm sure people who aren't patient would do so.

On top of this, they spend time making resources for the mogstation when there are fundamental problems in the game that need addressing, which in most people's opinions should take absolute priority. Things that haven't been solved in YEARS. Such as the fact that bosses disappear in large scale open world events like FATES. They then price these items way higher than any other cash shop I've seen from a subbed game and with all that extra cash they're making, we barely see any improvements. I mean.... we only JUST got an inventory increase with stack sizes being brought up to 999, something people have been asking for...for years. Something that, with the item bloat in this game, is honestly necessary. Especially if you want to level every crafter, hoooo boy! Not to mention, they do little to nothing about botters which they should have the staff to deal with. Most other games don't have a botting problem to such a degree because people actually get punished. Our "new" content is just more of the same and they don't even take time to increase the standards of things like graphics or cutscenes.

Look, I love ffxiv. Otherwise I wouldn't still be here. I respect that the devs are working hard, I'm not saying they aren't. But for the amount of money this game undoubtedly makes, they aren't putting the money and resources back into it. Yes, they are to some degree. But considering the AMOUNT they make it just isn't adding up especially when compared to its competitors and what they do with what budget they get. Final Fantasy is SE's cash cow. They know it. They will milk it and they do. To defend them in this.. well, you can do it if you want to. But to call other people childish for pointing this out when they have perfectly valid reason to do so is also pretty "childish".

I never said they should give things away for free, but their prices ARE high for a sub game. They are abusing their player base, lets not sugar coat it. If they were actually putting a majority of that money back into the game in a way that we end users could actually see and it was really monumental, then I'd have no problem with the prices. At all. And yeah, any business is going to want to make money. But it doesn't change the fact that a business working the way SE right now is, is not good to its customers. But we still support them. We just ask for change. Nothing wrong with that.

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I'm not going to argue about retainers simply because this thread isn't about them and I've already fought that fight hundreds of times. To disclose: I have two extra retainers. I bought them to fill out my gatherer jobs and the extra inventory allows me to be lazy about cleaning house. If I maxxed them out I'd be spending 24 dollars a month, in my opinion this is still cheap for an entire months worth of entertainment. After the recent change to inventory I have more free space than I know what to do with however and don't see why anyone would NEED 8, but that's anecdotal and I am not anyone else so maybe it's necessary, I've never had a real problem. That's all I will discuss about retainers, it's an entirely different matter and would turn this thread into something I do not wish to engage in again.

Seasonal items being available again in game would be nice, sure. I have nothing personally against people getting something they missed last year for free this year. But I also don't think charging for the item is entirely unreasonable either. Someone who has that item from last year was paying a sub and the person who doesn't likely did not. Asking for SOME of that possible sub money to have access to that item forevermore isn't something I'd even balk at. Why not keep doing it? Because there's potential for a little extra profit there. I'm not blind to the fact that it's making money where they could have decided not to and just given people the items but I don't feel like it's anything other than potential profit realized.

Once again, the people developing items for the mogstation AREN'T the people developing our game. This isn't a matter of things like Eureka where people should be incensed that we got that instead of whatever else we could have gotten. The emote has delayed no content in the actual game.

I'd also like to clear something up. I'm not defending SE. I'd like to thank you for not using the "white knight" dismissal in fact since I get that a lot. I'm being a realist. Being shocked or surprised or even angry when a company makes a decision to make money and maximize that money is silly though. I'm fully behind any movement that states SE should put more into FFXIV. I'd like better textures. I'd like the inventory not to be locked behind issues of coding or infrastructure. It would be AWESOME if they opened up more servers across the world and I could find one closer to me so that I don't have to deal with ping on top of difficult mechanics. All of this I'm in support of. I'm annoyed the profit from FFXIV apparently went into other games but not surprised. I'm also realistic about the fact that there's probably LESS constant profit than the majority of the forum goers think. I have no loyalty or vested interest in SE other than they've released many games I've enjoyed. I'd love to see this game improve but considering past decisions by company and devs I won't be surprised if this game hits its limits technically and is abandoned for the next one rather than the money being put into rebuilding this one again.

My problem is that when someone sees something where they don't like the price and they say "This is too much, it SHOULD be this cheaper price" . Well yes everyone would like things to be cheaper, that'd mean more of us could have them. Heck if they were free we could all have them. But I'm going to voice my opinion in that 12 dollars is not some 200 dollar statue, it's at most a value meal with an ice cream cone. They aren't asking for an insane price and if you don't like it you have the choice not to buy it. In fact I can't see any other emote on the mogstation ever that comes even close to the impact and visibility of this new one without being locked behind some crazy real item purchase. "I want it but I don't want to pay that much for it" just feels whiny to hear. Unless you're rich (and even then..) that's how almost everyone feels about everything.

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word childish, as that seems to have rubbed a couple people the wrong way. Naive?... Uninformed? They aren't greedy though, they're a business and it's important people view them as a corporate machine and not some giant grouping of suits chomping cigars thinking of how they can make us spend our last penny. It's all numbers fed in, balanced and unemotionally spat back out. Someone went up to the pricing people and said "we have this new emote, it cost this much time and money to make and the going rate for something of this level of investment is $" and it was put up. I would bet you the 12 dollars that nobody in that entire process even thought the words "milk" or "cash cow".

You are welcome to ask for change and you should, it isn't my place to even say or allow that. It's not ABUSE though. You aren't a victim. You are a customer and your choice to continue playing this game is your own and nobody is forcing you to pay for any of the mogstation stuff. My personal experience as a customer is that they're providing a service I enjoy at a pricepoint I find acceptable and I shall continue until it is not.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

This is such a weak argument based on the fact that dev team has said they are short staffed. I also have seen very little proof that the cash shop employees handle all aspects of the cash shop and no other employee is involved. I have also seen no proof that cash shop consistently has allowed the game to grow in content. We get the same or less now.

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It's based on the fact that they've stated the cash shop is it's own thing. The extent of that being a little fuzzy but implied to be a seperate art/modeling/animation/rigging/QA staff. Our new servers and the server move have been directly attributed to the increased budget from the mogsation. Otherwise I have no itemized list of what was payed for and nobody ever will. Sorry i can't prove that to you.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Again you keep posting that the cash shop employees handle everything. Do you honestly believe that they handle everything and take no production hours away from anything else? I could be wrong, but I doubt they have extra people to just patch cash shop items into the game, or it happens like magic.

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The part of the process where it gets put into the actual game is minor and the team that actually puts the items into the databases and loads the graphic textures into the game couldn't care less if you put one more dress into their workload for patch day. The production you speak of has been referenced as an entirely different team, yes.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Why do people who defend companies lack the common sense of comparative shopping? Also some people have a limit onto what they will consider appropriate value. EA wouldn't be in so much crap if they had the fans SE had. The threshold for being abused as customers are so much higher. Martin Shkreli, had the fans SE had.
I think this would end if they just stepped up and reworked the cash shop to Kupo nuts. And you can buy X amount of Kupo Nuts for X amount or gil or X amount of dollars players choice. In comparison to most other MMOs F2P or B2P or sub SE is taking as much as the whales will give.

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Comparative to.. what? Destiny? Where you buy silver for a lootbox and you MIGHT get what you want? WOW, where the mounts are 25 dollars and the hats are 15? I'd say we have it better than those. Yes some people have a limit, your income and personal life experience will change this greatly. 12 dollars for something you'll probably enjoy for a total of 2 hours ever isn't all that bad if you consider what else you spend money on. Consider a starbucks coffee or an alcoholic drink at a bar, both consumable in seconds and very near in price. EA got in trouble because they locked items behind THOUSANDS of dollars worth of lootboxes or YEARS of time investment along with limiting the actual real time you could invest per day in acquiring those items, not really comparable. Comparing a 12 dollar emote with increasing the cost of a drug that saves peoples lives over %600 is not making you look very reasonable.
Comparatively people can and will spend hundreds playing other f2p games per month, asking someone to drop even 100 bucks on stuff they keep forever on their characters just isn't the scourge you seem to think it is.

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Originally Posted by Aerlana

My matter is not "they shouldnt make so much profit". In fact, if a company does a wonderfull game, and for $1 invest in the game, they get back $10. I would applause. But no. they try to get as high as possible with those dozen of miniselling, making a mist.

NOBODY here, neither the pro cash shop or anti cash shop havre real proof of how much the cash shop is needed or no to do the FFXIV we have. The mist hide it. maybe you are right, maybe i am. But nothing to clearly say who.
With old system, the devs just had to say "we invest X on the game" "we sold Y of the game" and simple math gave an idea.

I dislike when there is mist. And all those cash shop, season pass and loot boxes are mists.

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There's no mist here though. Cash shop items would not exist without the cash shop. It's possible the seasonal items would be free forever if it didn't exist but things like NPC clothes for other races besides the story NPC and emotes like megaflare or power up just would never have happened.