[Spoilers] The Patch 4.2 Discussion and Speculation Thread!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belhi

However we do have that dialog when we see Krile that goes along the lines of:

"While I dare not give myself wholly to hope, I will not deny that I have prayed for such a miracle ever since that fateful day."

---

Putting those words over Krile's appearance seems like a misdirection to me, since the voice that said it (and the bound by duty line that follows) belongs to Yugiri, which would seem to suggest she's talking about Gosetsu.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KageTokage

I also seriously doubt that Garlemald is genuinely interested in forming an alliance with anyone.

---

I get the sense that Varis is being pragmatic here (if he's not being manipulated into this by Elidibus) - the Empire's previous attempts at ridding Hydaelyn of the Eikon threat have not exactly worked out the way they wanted, and here is the WoL doing a rather good job (usually) of it without needing to drop small moons on anyone or risk lives and resources to eradicate groups of beast tribes or subjugate nations. With the potential threat of further rebellion (a concern that, although not necessarily an actual threat, is one that has been actively cultivated by the Shinobi, as mentioned by Yugiri) in other provinces, engaging in further resource intensive campaigns is ultimately less attractive than seeking an alliance with the most effective "primal problem solver" currently on Hydaelyn.

There are, of course, possible ulterior motives at play - if he is in fact being manipulated into it by Elidibus, then it could be the start of putting us into position for some greater nefarious goal (using us as the template for more resonant springs to mind, or fostering a situation than can be twisted into a betrayal, and thus more conflict, playing right into the hands of what the Ascians generally want as they seek to weaken Hydaelyn and break the boundaries between the Source and the other worlds).

And then there's always the possibility (as was partially the case with Solus) that he legitimately wants the Eikon threat dealt with because it's not good for Hydaelyn...but I'm still curious about his motives here. With Solus, his ambition to conquer beyond Ilsabard predated his drive to eradicate the Eikons (and I don't trust the idea that the latter goal wholly replaced the former goal). It was in the course of conquering Othard that he first saw the havoc such a being could wreak, and it was then that it became an important part of their overall goals.

With Varis, while he has professed a similar goal (with similarly ruthless methods, as we saw in HW with Bismarck and the Vundu/Gundu situation), I don't know if we know if he holds the same "must conquer" ambition that Solus held. Basically, is the goal to remove the Eikon threat just for the good of the planet, or is it also to remove a major obstacle to further expansion?

It sucks there's nothing on Elidibus in the trailer. He's dragging on to be super egnimatic. I wouldnt be surprised if his true intentions and a fight with him aren't solved by 7.0 at this rate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

Speaking of talking down eikons... what eikons/primals are around that Varis is worried about? This isn't like the Warring Triad where Theoden all but said he was absorbing existing primals' power at the end of the expansion and then we spent the reset of the patches dealing with them. 'Cause given the characterization the Scions and WoL have been given so far, we'd probably figure out a way to get to any primal that happened to be out regardless of who the primal is directly threatening. It's not like we need alliances in place to have reason to do that.

I'm thinking that the whole alliance Varis is proposing will be framed like a hypothetical for when a primal is summoned. With the goal that when a primal is summoned someplace that isn't in Garlemald, Varis gets to have some sort of influence on how the Scions deal with the situation. Probably in exchange for not giving the Scions trouble if they have to deal with a primal that is in Garlemald. With lots of fine print for both situations. Having influence on what the WoL can get up to would be great for him.

The other scenario I could see is that there's a lot of primal summoning going on that the Scions don't know about because it's in Garlean territory. And Varis needs somebody to deal with it. And with the Resonance project in shambles, he's run out of options. How the Scions could figure out if he isn't lying is up for debate (his censorship working against him). And who knows what he would do after the situation is dealt with... Thing is, there's no reason the Scions and WoL wouldn't want to deal with that kind of situation even if it was a bad deal.

Also, I don't think the Four Lords are primals from what we've seen of them so far. So I don't think whatever alliance Varis is proposing is about dealing with them.

---

Well, if we go with the idea that the Four Lords are primals/eikons then their appearance on the new world map might give us a clue.

In the Garlean Empire area of the map, there are two beings that might be eikons/primals that the empire deals with. A whale and a giant. The Lunar Whale and Giant of Babil maybe?

Speculation aside, we'll just have to wait and see what exactly the Four Lords are. I wouldn't be surprised if they are eikons, if not normal ones.

I fully expect Byakko and the rest of the Lords to be some kind of deiform. It looks like a rock in Hell's Lid behind the turtle grandpa boss is covered in omamori. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omamori
Which seem to indicate some kind of spiritual malarkey is happening. Like the stormblood primals thus I expect something out of the ordinary. The black/red aura he utilizes is reminiscent of two things to me immediately: voidsent and Ame-no-Habakiri. He is likely to be an exceptionally powerful kami, and given everything we know about kami thus far--they're analogous to Eorzean elementals and primals. Byakko's dialogue in the trailer is also interesting...
"Receive of me my fury, children of man, and quell it." "There is no turning back." For some reason neither of these strike me as particularly aggressive. It almost sounds to me like we're performing some kind of mercy, killing Byakko. The voiced dialogue as a whole is curious in the trailer, we even appear to have Nero speaking "SHOW US WHAT YOU CAN DO" which is ... odd to the say least. No other raid has gotten voice acting before! I'd almost believe this isn't Nero, but the other languages seem to have the weird tin-can effect that's reminiscent of Garlean helmets.

I also agree with Berethos that the dialogue played over Krile sounds a lot more like Yugiri than our Sharlayan Lalafell, but shrug. It would be the only time in the trailer they aren't showing the character as the dialogue plays. I also suspect that we won't be comparing Fordola to Yotsuyu's crimes so much as Gosetsu's to Yotsuyu. I also agree with unknown elk here that I think, eventually, we're going to learn Nero was "stay puft"-ing us the whole time. While we got a whole patch of Ala Mhigo in 4.1... I can't help but hope for some glimpses to what Raubahn and Fordola are up to during 4.2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YianKutku

TL;DR I don't think Varis sending Asahi is a sign of disrespect. He might be playing a very deep game that even Asahi doesn't know, but just because Varis doesn't come meet us himself doesn't mean the person he sends is just a lackey.

---

What I'm getting at is that by sending someone to act in his stead, Varis shows that peace (or an alliance with the Scions, at least) is not his top priority. I am willing to bet both it's something he's interested in and acknowledge that he trusts Asahi to act in his stead, but not personally showing up says, to me at least, that this alliance isn't that important to him.

So... wheel of salt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rocl

The voiced dialogue as a whole is curious in the trailer, we even appear to have Nero speaking "SHOW US WHAT YOU CAN DO" which is ... odd to the say least. No other raid has gotten voice acting before!

---

That's actually not true, we definitely had dialogue spoken in Final Coils of Bahamut. Especially during Phoenix and Bahamut.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cilia

What I'm getting at is that by sending someone to act in his stead, Varis shows that peace (or an alliance with the Scions, at least) is not his top priority. I am willing to bet both it's something he's interested in and acknowledge that he trusts Asahi to act in his stead, but not personally showing up says, to me at least, that this alliance isn't that important to him.

So... wheel of salt.

---

He would have to come into enemy territory. That either means putting himself very much at the mercy of the Domans, which would be insane, or turning up with an army, which wouldn't be received well. Its worth noting Asahi is here to explore the possibility of an Allaince, not hammer out all the details. Its testing the waters. In formalising such an alliance, Varis should be turning up or at least someone very close to him in power (though we killed off his heir so I don't know who is next). I doubt such formalising would happen in Doma either. They would probably want neutral ground so at the very least Hingashi.

I wonder, with Brutus and Hells Lid being connected to the Primal storyline, does this mean Primals are being reintegrated back into the MSQ?

Also, I had a thought about where the legend of Kefka would have come from, well, we've fought him, twice
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20160610143428

Its not a reach to say Omega could have pulled Kefka from stories about Ferdiad

Asahi showing up in Varis' stead isn't a problem. What I more have a problem is is that I can't think of a way the Scions (or the Alliance for that matter) can verify that he's presenting what Varis' stance on certain topics actually is. As in, what's to prevent Varis from telling Asahi that certain options are on the table when Varis knows they aren't? Everyone kinda has to take Asahi's word for it that he's presenting Varis' stance accurately and there's so many ways that could go wrong I really don't see any good reason to trust him.

Another group that Varis having an alliance with the Scions/Eorzean Alliance could cause a lot of problems for: the Garlond Ironworks. Forget Cid (and Nero), most of the people in the Ironworks are people who escaped with Cid from Garlamald (this includes Jessie, Biggs and Wedge). As far as how bad of a problem this could be for them... most of the Ironworks employees (especially the ones from Garlemald) use fake names so that the Garleans have a harder time figuring out who in the Garlean Empire they can use as blackmail against the Ironworks...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunafreya

It sucks there's nothing on Elidibus in the trailer. He's dragging on to be super egnimatic. I wouldnt be surprised if his true intentions and a fight with him aren't solved by 7.0 at this rate.

---

I admit I don't know how they can continue the Elidibus plotline, narratively, while still focusing on the Empire.

At the end of 4.0, Elidibus unmasked himself, Varis went "HOW DARE", and then we cut away from the subsequent reactions.

Then we had 4.1's stinger, which had nothing to do with Elidibus, apart from the possible speculation among players about Elidibus wearing Zenos's face causing the rumours of his survival in Garlemald.

So now we can't satisfactorily show Elidibus or Varis without answering the questions raised in the stinger for 4.0, which was largely ignored in 4.1. What did Varis do with his outrage? How did he deal with Elidibus? Is he still simmering over it, or has he moved on?

Any focus on this matter will probably be in just another stinger at the end of the 4.2 MSQ, since there probably won't be time to handle it in the story itself. So there's little chance it would be in the trailer.