BLM needs more damage

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Originally Posted by Neela

and here we go again with meta(s)... why do u think that all grps run with 3 or even more melees? my own static goes with dbl caster rang/melee and I know at least 2 other statics which run dbl caster - oh and btw how "meta" was the worlds firsts ultimate clear grp again? so... "meta" is worth a shit... you just can't generalize party comps to "whats bis is" cause there are enough grps which run out of meta-comps.

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This is very simple. You either have enough damage to beat Ultimate enrage or you don't.
Have you seen footage of people killing Golden Bahamut? When he starts to channel the last Morn Afah and murders the party members one by one and everyone's scrambling to actually kill him?
The clears where as the final blow is dealt half the party has died?
This is how incredibly tight that enrage is.

I just looked up the difference in Paladin and Dark Knight damage for Deltascape on the max percentile, and it's around 50 dps. That's the difference between the two jobs played perfect (some favourable rng non-withstanding).
It's small enough that you can probably clear with either if mitigation isn't an issue.
Now try to convince me you can lose like 300+ raid dps and actually hope to beat that enrage.
You can't. That's why the dps comp for that fight is crucial.

(Please get a clue before posting nonsense that I fell compelled to clarify with a lengthy post -.-)

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Originally Posted by Karshan

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this is honest & true - would sign that tho.

radiant counter physical dmg taken so no not all 8 grp member will trigger it and like Karshan said con can be better if you are able to time it right. and since when is dbl range meta? before ultimate dropped it cleary wasn't so what are u talking about gunner? : /

@Galvuu

get a clue about what? everybody knows why they changed their setup - I just said it wasn't meta before and nobody should assume that all player follow the meta, whats the point in your ultimate bla? that wasn't even the point. so maybe you should get a clue whats the point of the previous post was before brabbeling stuff in a whole different context.

@ Dualgunner I understand your point about Radiant vs Embo.

About radiant, for exemple, on double roar on O1S I don't think it'll do 16 hits because 8 people got hit twice in a raw. Or if it does, it's on a queue system.

320 potency each raid wide AOE + 40 per auto attack on tank + 40 for any other attack one third of the fight is just too much, also given he naturally does about 30% more damage than Garuda.

On this parse it was up 100 seconds (5 times) which is 1/3rd of the fight and only did 68 hits.
https://fr.fflogs.com/reports/8vjz2J...pe=damage-done

Edit : @ Neela Double ranged has been meta for long, and SB didn't shuffle the cards. Well it did, broke War, MCH, SCH, but restoration happened and the top team (WAR SCH NIN DRG BRD MCH) is back up again, even with the nerf on disembowel.

From what I'm looking at here, it got cast 5 times and procced 107 times across all players. Looking at Summoner's damage in specific, it accounted for 50.3k damage.

Sorry if I'm slow here btw, on phone so fflogs can be... "fun" to navigate lol

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Originally Posted by Neela

@Galvuu

get a clue about what? everybody knows why they changed their setup - I just said it wasn't meta before and nobody should assume that all player follow the meta, whats the point in your ultimate bla? that wasn't even the point. so maybe you should get a clue what you are going to answer and what not?

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Get a clue because you don't understand why dps compositions are the way they are for this specific fight.
If you did, you'd understand why they can change their Paladin for Dark Knight without making a clear unlikely, and why they can't change any of the dps jobs for Black Mage.
And you'd understand why this issue is very relevant on Ultimate.

Also, these players- the super high end of the playerbase- are the people who define the meta. These people don't follow anyone, they're the ones that carve out the path that others follow.
By definition, they are the ones to set what's viable and what's not. If a new meta comp shows up, it's because they figured out that it's better (although this wasn't the case, it was a player preference thing).

well thats what I meant it wasn't about ultimate at all.... so we currently don't talk about the same point tho. and you haven't told me anything I wasn't aware about yet regarding the ultimate firsts grp. although it wasn't the point anyway to talk about ultimate in specification - what you say about "meta" is true, they try and error as well even more than the rest but (like you said yourself in this situation it was personal preference) even though it has nothing to say that the worlds first comp is automatically the new meta. maybe the same grp can do even better with another comp they haven't tried yet. anyway, on the other hand isn't it just lame to copy cat the big ones? we won't do that... can't understand that so many other not just do it (what they absolutely can if they like to) but praise it as well (whats bullshit imo...)...

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Originally Posted by Neela

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They did better with another comp. They reoptimised the fight and went with MCH/BRD/DRG/NIN for dps and got a faster clear.
This game is ultimately mathematical in nature if you assume people are executing to near perfection.
When you get to that level of play, it's not about what you want or like.
It's about "is the dps number big enough to beat the fight or not?".
If the answer is "it's not" 99% of the time you put a specific job in, that job isn't viable. And that seems to be the case right now.
And that's why these damage buffs are important.

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

When you get to that level of play, it's not about what you want or like.

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im not talking about the worlds first competition but about everybody else who make the lemming move... out of the world firsts your described "lvl of play" is all about having the biggest balls not about the last missing 2% to clear a content – taking ultimate aside (just in case you'll take a 3rd move on ultimate) every comp can clear every content with enough training/muscle memory - their is no need to praise a meta and make fun of those who don't run this meta, is it? well maybe it is... ^^'

The META (Most Effective Tactic Avaliable) is made by pure math. There will always be one team comp that is the best without any buffs or nerfs happening that composition won't change. Not only that but the meta party is far more significant than equiping a said BiS.

Guy just played DRK because he liked it and the team was ok with it. While it can shorten up the clear chance a bit, it won't do it by much if the team is skilled enough. Now on the BLM side, everything else you remove for it makes you lose an extremely powerful ability for progression and in exchange you get nothing but a job that will either die surprised by mechanics you don't know or low damage to play safe and not die for those said mechanics.

The problem right now is that clearing any 8-man content with a BLM is like putting a challenge on your group, it's like playing FFVI without using Ultima spam or things that are even more powerful, because you love the game but think it makes it too easy (been there done that), it's a job that is clunky for the group to play with, it has 0 utility, is more punished by mechanics than any class and ppl can't even claim it's easy to play to compensate because if you look at fflogs you'll see that the lower the percentile the worse BLM is doing...

It's by any objective metric the worst job in the game, and the only saving grace it has is that it's actually fun to play (IMO), but even then most healers think it is unfun to play with a BLM and for sure it's not fun for the entire group when you enrage at 1%, when I play my black mage I really think i'm having fun at others expense...