Developers Poor Attitude to Summoner

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Oh there is definitely reason for legit complaints, as long as legitimate. Right now based on parser and flogs SMN is the lost dps caster but doesn't account for buffs/debuffs as smn damage and is ignored by those sources. People are using Garuda because the magic debuff gives them a visible damage increase, it's something tangible were as things like Radiant Shields and Devotion make it harder to tell if the damage decrease is worth the buffs.

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What? Many people who complain do account buffs\debuffs. And they actually account much more - difficulty of the job, existence of other easier jobs that bring both more utility and DPS(u know the one) etc.
I used ifrit in physical party compositions at first but then stopped cause it was pretty pointless. Average player probably won't even notice difference between garuda and ifrit at all...
PS
By the way... Now we're skipping 1st DWT to maximize our DPS through using aetherflow stacks with bahamut... what FEEDBACK does it send to SE? That they should delete DWT? It's a DPS loss after all. Or mb that they should delete summoners altogether? lol
Community decided that they don't need DWT boyz...

I do have to wonder, why is Summon Bahamut on a 30 second recast? When you think about, is there truly a scenario that would enable you to somehow Summon bahamut in less that a minute after just summoning it? Though the reason I do bring this up is I wonder if the following would serve to make dying less painful. While it may have to alter the dmg potency of Summon bahamut, I do think it might work.

Basically, you put "Summon Bahamut" on a 2 min recast, However, rather than needing to use "Dreadwyrm Trance" twice to gain access to it, you instead just need to use 3 Aethertrail Attunement to Summon Bahamut. So Bahamut works as normal, cept now it's a 2 min recast, it's something you can open with however whenever you do go into "Dreadwyrm Trance" it reduces the recast of Summon Bahamut by 30 seconds. So there would be opportunity to summon it sooner if SMN builds up their charges quicker. Though I'll be honest and say the recast reduction may have no difference unless it was over one minute.


TLDR. Summon Bahamut uses the 3 stacks of Aethertrail Attunement rather than 2 "Dreadwyrm Trances". Dreadwyrm Trance serves as a way to reduce the recast of Summon Bahamut(2 min recast). Idea is dying becomes less punishing since you don't lose the built up Dreadwyrm Trances now that Summon Bahamut is tied to Aethertrail Attunement rather than the trances.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Oh there is definitely reason for legit complaints, as long as legitimate. Right now based on parser and flogs SMN is the lost dps caster but doesn't account for buffs/debuffs as smn damage and is ignored by those sources. People are using Garuda because the magic debuff gives them a visible damage increase, it's something tangible were as things like Radiant Shields and Devotion make it harder to tell if the damage decrease is worth the buffs.

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And you get to decide what is and isn't a legitimate complaint I take it?

Sorry but no, this is wrong. People have already calculated the damage that Radiant Shield and Devotion put out. For one it's already been ascertained that Devotion is usually a waste of a GCD for your pet as they skip an auto-attack to use it and the damage they lose from that is often more than the damage a DPS would gain from that 5% increase, especially given how little control we have over who gets the buff. Radiant Shield is only worthwhile in situations with lots of adds and a physical heavy group composition. That pretty much means it's only useful for trash pulls which are largely irrelevant to balance discussion.

You're trying to pretend that SMN isn't as bad as it seems. I really don't understand why.

I'm all for more black magic love as well, and as said many times before this all seems more solvable if SCH & SMN aren't leveled up as one. It still seems strange to begin with; you get a free healer or a free dps by just leveling one or the other. You might even say no wonder these aren't full blown healer nor dps right now? :confused:

Boy, what I wouldn't give for a community manager to say "We hear you guys" right now.

There's some great feedback in here.

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Originally Posted by eschaton

I'm all for more black magic love as well, and as said many times before this all seems more solvable if SCH & SMN aren't leveled up as one. It still seems strange to begin with; you get a free healer or a free dps by just leveling one or the other. You might say no wonder these aren't full blown healer nor dps right now? :confused:

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Umm no... SCH is a full blown healer. SCHs were actually the best healers in 3.0. That's why SE kinda overnerfed them in 4.0. Which was addressed in 4.05. But SMN was in a pretty good spot in 3.0 too - best aoe dps, pretty big ST dps rivaling BLMs and even MNKs sometimes. And it's painfully obvious that SMN was overnerfed too. I wrote several times already about how smn nerfs are there cause of bahamut and it "should" compensate them, but it does not. And it was not addressed in a slightest... or even acknowledged...

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Originally Posted by Airget

recast question

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Demi bahamut is summonable after successfully exiting dwt twice. I believe deathflare now has something like a 12 second cd. after using the first 2 dwt you can wait to get flow again and attain 3 attunement without using dwt. summon Demi bahamut and do that. after he ends you can now immediately dwt again and if you felt like it instant deathflare. and oh what's this my flow is off cd. use that spam painflare e drain and the dot nuke thing I forgot the name of atm and oh look I have full attunement why not just dwt again deathflare again and bahamut again oh shit it's still on CD guess I gotta wait 20 more seconds and not have what is essentially 6 akh mornes in 30 seconds

Until they change the smn back to how it was in heavensward I will be playing bard. Bahamut is just a waste you get 2 attacks out of it and if have titan out it looses all agro and has to start over.

it's sad to say , but

until we get sustain back i have more fun leveling my red mage .....with the rdm dual self-heal and the lack of sustain on smn , rdm makes a better class for hunts/ solo play

and i was smn since the launch of the game :(

square has to understand that not all of us play non stop in groups , heck i often dont even a single dungeon for the weekly marks ( hunts , potd , diadem are more than enough for marks )

jeez .......in pvp a SUMMONER cant even SUMMON with their changes ..... ( and a nin cant stealth without a combo first..... woohoo )

I kinda wish that SMN would just get disconnected from Arcanist and Scholar entirely. Rework it completely and away from being a pet class DPS. Instead build around expanding the demi-bahamut system to include the other primals. Could even work it so that you cast primal themed spells (I dunno, summon ifrit's claw to launch a fireball, summon Garuda's wings to do a tornado pbAoE, summon Titan's fist to do a line AoE, etc) to build up aetherial "charge" with that primal so that you can summon its Demi version to cast their more iconic abilities and then they disappear.

That in my mind would be cooler then the egis we have now (that I just see people glam to carbuncles anyways).