Cleric Stance Discussion - Is it needed?

Cleric Stance is solely a comfort issue imo. Turn it on at the wrong time and could possibly lose your tank in that 5 second window. Making it more comfortable to use would hopefully encourage Healers to DPS if they can.

I feel like Cleric Stance would be fine on GCD or the current CD only activated when turned off.

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Originally Posted by RosaLunaCelestia

Healer without it just heal and not dps at all . Without switch with int its a waste of mp . BUT if we use healer skill on ennemy affect them as dmg its interessant . But that mean some skills are useless :/

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Nobody's suggesting to remove it and leave healer dps based on INT.

The suggestion is to remove it and make healers function in healing and dps as if they had the right stance on.

And at the end of it all, nobody can argue that it's "needed" because the system can be reworked to make healer dps spells MND-based with a trait on all healers to give a 10% boost in potencies to make up for that part of cleric stance.

(Also keep in mind the whole reason for this conversation is button bloat with whatever new buttons that are coming taken into consideration as well.)

I believe Yoshi P's comment was directed more to the fact that cleric stance makes healers feel obligated to dps in FF14 and that wasn't part of the design intent. Cleric stance serves to allow healers to solo content but its not originally intended to be used for group content. This was a design oversight on their part. I think they don't want dpsing to be easy or safe for healers. Honestly if they are going to go with the existing meta I would prefer it that way. Healer dps rotations are extremely dull and part of the actual engaging part of the gameplay is with timing stance dancing.

If they want healers to focus only on healing they could make it so you can only turn on clerics stance while out of combat.

I think it's a bit limiting, in that if you make it so all healers have it you limit the sort of mechanics or perhaps obnoxiously complicate them. You could build other forms of DD into healers but if you first have to hit the wall of cleric no matter the mechanic, you either limit or overly complicate the mechanic. So moving it into one healer only, then giving other healers their own sort of damage styles could be more interesting, as at the moment they're very likely to have very similar styles.

Less homogeneous so more difficult to balance but I think it'd be better to move it to one job and then give other jobs their own methods of dealing with damage opportunities.

For example what if you wanted to bind damage dealing and healing into a joint mechanic, job doesn't get any DoTs but instead pecks away at all times, like a node they drop near enemies and gain potency bonus to healing via the damage made round the node (with a cap ofc) or can mana drop into the node instead of heal for more damage (maybe build a battery of potency bonus for another ability). Of course you can throw in cleric stance but then you /have/ to design around it as it is incredibly strong, leading to a high chance of making the damage style similar (/watering it down).

I mean you could almost always balance around cleric stance with any idea, but again it would require molding the mechanic idea around a fixed core idea that healers can rotate their mind and intelligence and must give up one for the other in this specific way. Not trying to change people's jobs but for example scholar could gain aethertraits from healing and then use those to empower/enable damage abilities, while certain damage abilities could empower/enable healing - when healing is unneeded they can pour it into their fairy gaining a mana over time return while still earning damage traits.

I imagine SE could design a healer style that people used to focus on healing would be better at, but still not burden the party who expects/wants them to deal damage - not saying making a style that is inherently better for people not liking cleric but a /different/ style could help a lot who like the idea of healing but troubles with cleric specifically. Everyone having to specifically stance dance a specific stance (even tanks get a bit more stance variety even) and that be the be all end all style of mechanic development really limits that.

So I hope that maybe it doesn't go away, but that it isn't a healer generic ability in SB (of course clean up the aftermath of what that means so other healers have their own methods of damaging in a similar "end result way", the journey could/should be different but the end results being similar).

I enjoy the concept of CS, and understand why it is a necessary tool on the Healer kit.

That said, I'd enjoy it more if the cool down window was reversed and those 5 seconds were for when you turn it OFF. I suppose I can see the risk vs reward strategy the devs were probably going for, but....ya know. Is what it is. I do hope Stormblood offers some new ground regarding CS.

It's AIDS, just get rid of it

Base healer dps off of Mind

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Originally Posted by PocketVolcano

Base healer dps off of Mind

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I don't think many Healers who don't want to DPS realise how much worse their predicament would become if this change were to happen, because now they have absolutely no excuse for not contributing DPS, thus making the Healer DPS Meta pretty much guaranteed across the board.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

If they want healers to focus only on healing they could make it so you can only turn on clerics stance while out of combat.

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If they want healers to focus only on healing they should make the content warrent a healer only healing...

I feel like removing cleric stance would be a bad idea. Yes, if they remove it and scale healer DPS off of mind, it becomes easier...but the risk of cleric stance and knowing when to use it is part of the fun for me. I get to challenge myself and see how much damage I can output while still keeping everyone up. This would be made pretty trivial if there was no stance dancing involved.