Make relics the best weapons 100% time

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Originally Posted by Asael

Concerning your WoW friends, by definition that is still casual. There is such a thing as casual raiders. Hence why it's just silly to always directly associate casual with non-skilled.

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Raiders that stay on the bleeding edge of progression and see content months before the most of the playerbase should be considered casual because they don't need to spend a whole lot of time to do it? That's just silly.

Casual refers explicitly to the kinds of content one partakes in. Competitive progression raiding? Not casual. Grinding out each phase of the relic questline at your own pace and on your own time? Casual.

yeah, lets make a ridiculous grind required for raiding. I'm sure that will go over real well.

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

if they did that then no1 would raid.. yoshi stated that a whiles back relics will always be 2nd best weapons in game behind raid weapons

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Actually all he said was that it would remain the top tier. Relic can still be its equal in i level.

It won't matter either way.

Weapons do not pass each other in strength, this game is equal level, equal attack and defense, everyone wears same gear, no one out damages anyone else except by a little bit from different job classes.
They'll never do what FFXI did where everyone was doing something different with their gear and weapons.

they'll always keep the weapons up above a few or down a few but never stronger.

if you max your relic its just for show not for power.

See, the problem is that you have people that think "casual" means content. That is not the definition of casual. I can be a casual player playing hardcore content. Similar to a professional, lets say football player, who plays football casually. Casual payers are considered casual because of time and how time is spent, not because of content. You can have "casual raiders" just like you can have "hardcore Candy crush players". So on that note, you really have about 4 types of players. Casual+casual content players, Casual+hard content players, hardcore+casual content, and Hardcore+hardcore content.

For example, when i was younger, i considered myself a hardcore gamer. I had time to put into games to grind, learn difficult content, etc. As i got older, I unfortunately became more of a casual gamer. Not because content was hard. I enjoy difficult games. I grew up in the 80's. no memory cards, no save points or internet guides and videos. Hell, i was happy when they added passwords to games that saved your spot. But back then, if you played games for a very long time, you were considered a gamer and also hardcore because of the time you spent playing. But now, I have job, life responsibilities, and because of those things, I'm more casual than hardcore. I want to be hardcore. I would love to spend hours playing my favorite game, but i cant. But when i do play, I do go all out and try to obtain the best and be the best. This game doesn't offer enough for the in between players, who only have casual time to play but want as much as they can get out of that limited time they have. So content doesn't determine if you are hardcore or casual more so than time you can spend in game.

And people who call themselves hardcore players in this forum, you are actually backing up the definiton of casual being the amount of time invested when you complain that you participate in end game raids for hours and days and farming tomes and etc. All of that is time invested, doesn't really matter the content. It seems alot of you want it both ways. You want to list your self as Hardcore because of the content compared to what you are doing, but then you want to complain that because you put time and effort into doing content that you should also get the title of hardcore. You can't just group casual players into a group based on your own definiton of what casual is to you. And SE needs something in place for the players that are caught in the middle between wanting a challenge but can not engage in most of the endgame content due to time constraints.

This argument is also why i think SE needs to add more challenging 4-man content. Iam in an FC. But I dont have the same amount of time as everyone else to put towards things like end game raiding, etc. Its not the difficulty of the raid. I love the challenge. Its the difficulty of finding people to do the same raid when they expect you to know the raid as if you developed it yourself. Then to find a party, then to hope that party doesnt wipe on first try or some will leave, which leaves you waiting again....its not conducive to someone with limited time, but im supposed to use same limited time to grind for weapon that isn't even equal to gear in raids that i would do if they were more easily accessible to someone with less time than end game raiders. There is no middle ground. And there should be. Yes its an mmo, but that doesn't mean you cant have some content, even solo content, that people with limited time to plan around others can do on their own, or with a smaller group.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

Raiders that stay on the bleeding edge of progression and see content months before the most of the playerbase should be considered casual because they don't need to spend a whole lot of time to do it? That's just silly.

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Nope not silly at all. From the wording to the definitions it is casual. It simply means they're very good players who also to happen to play casually. Like I said, there is such a thing as casual raiders, and sometimes some of them are very good at it. Especially if we're talking about people who played at higher levels and extremes, and later eased into a more casual level of play.

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Casual refers explicitly to the kinds of content one partakes in.

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No it doesn't. Stop trying to directly associate the two. You can casually play and still participate in any form of content you wish. Being a casual player doesn't prevent this.

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Originally Posted by Asael

No it doesn't.

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Yes, it does.

If your main focus is playing casual content, then you are a casual player. If your main focus is playing hardcore content, you are a hardcore player. If you spend a lot of time playing casual content, you're a casual player with a lot of time of your hands.

Additionally, casual raiders are raiders who, by definition, are not concerned with competitive progression.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

Yes, it does.

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No, it doesn't

Casual-

adjective:

1. relaxed and unconcerned.
2. not regular or permanent, in particular.

noun:

1. a person who does something irregularly.

You're trying to correlate casual player with content preferences. Not the same thing.

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If your main focus is playing casual content, then you are a casual player. If your main focus is playing hardcore content, you are a hardcore player. If you spend a lot of time playing casual content, you're a casual player with a lot of time of your hands.

Additionally, casual raiders are raiders who, by definition, are not concerned with competitive progression.

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Look at it this way. If I spend roughly 2 hours a day or every other day playing in coil then to proceed to spend another 8 hours crafting after I would be considered a casual endgame player but a hard core crafter. The opposite also applies in that if someone spends 8 hours a day playing coil and nothing but coil that person is a hardcore endgame player.

By your definition anyone who were to spend even 10 minutes a week in coil would be considered a hardcore player since the amount of time spent is irrelevant and is solely dependent upon specific content participation.

Besides, considering the game we are playing right now, trying to use the word hardcore in the sense of being good or not is nothing short of an odd joke. This game is overly simplified with its’ job/class mechanics, the stats are extremely streamlined, and boss/battle mechanics are acutely simplistic and predictable in nature (even in coil). It's only seemingly difficult due to the player element with people who simply can't pay attention to simple mechanics, are too lazy to take the time to understand their already simplified job, and can’t be bothered to appropriately gear. This is a theme park styled game, and if you're really going to apply that what separates hardcore from casual is content, then frankly we're all super casuals.

I noticed that you chose to ignore the first (and primary) definition that you yourself quoted. "Relaxed and unconcerned" is exactly what a casual player is, and exactly what casual content is, regardless of whether or not you spend a lot of time or a little time participating in it.

You also seem to believe that "casual" is a derogatory term, which it really isn't. I'm a casual player, though I've had some experience with hardcore playstyles in the past. They're both fine and whichever kind of content you prefer it's not better or worse than the other.