Novus Meld Failure - Remove Please

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

No, they're just unlucky and that's their way of expressing it. It was an idiot statement. You may as well tell me the sky is blue and then get confused why I thought it was not terribly appropriate.

More to the point, it doesn't have to be guaranteed, but why create a system where you may NEVER win when you don't have to. Sure it's astronomically unlikely for that to happen, but it IS a possibility and it can happen. Why would you leave that in for a player to experience?

If you're going to have pure RNG systems, particularly for this type of thing where you basically have no input other than "press button", it's good to at least establish a floor. Be it 5, 16, or however many fails seems like too many, put a bottom on it that can't be crossed.

The other problem is that this system is built on top of the other massive RNG fest of spiritbinding where you also have something like a 50% fail rate (elemental and primary stat materia i'm looking at you). Which is further compounded by the fact that the stats themselves aren't really equal, some (det) are much better than others (skill speed).

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It is a statistical impossibility to even think that someone would never successfully meld and should not be taken into consideration. That would be like asking for CRT to have a floor as well because someone with 20% has a probability that he could never crit anything ever.While the systems (Novus and Spiritbinding) could use improvements right now, you can't disagree that people are grossly over exaggerating how terrible they are.

And yes, certain stats are worthless for certain jobs (Skill Speed for Dragoons, Spell Speed for Summoners) but that's a whole other topic.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Selective rework or do you have to "reset" it and start from scratch?

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Have to get the scroll again and the gems for the melds you want to redo but it was nice of SE to not make a 100% rework.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

Selective. You get a filled in sphere scroll, and you remove the ones you don't want. Then you use alexandrite and materia to fill in the rest just like you did the first time.

For example, given 33crit, 23det, 19acc. You remove the 19 accuracy, then using 19 alexandrite you can meld another 11 Tier IV crit and 8 Tier IV det to change it to 44 crit, 31det.

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This ^ lol

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Selective rework or do you have to "reset" it and start from scratch?

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Selective. You get a filled in sphere scroll, and you remove the ones you don't want. Then you use alexandrite and materia to fill in the rest just like you did the first time.

For example, given 33crit, 23det, 19acc. You remove the 19 accuracy, then using 19 alexandrite you can meld another 11 Tier IV crit and 8 Tier IV det to change it to 44 crit, 31det.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Have to get the scroll again and the gems for the melds you want to redo but it was nice of SE to not make a 100% rework.

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Good to know, thanks.

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you can't disagree that people are grossly over exaggerating how terrible they are.

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Yes, people always exaggerate in RNG discussions. However, given the 2.35 spirit bonding chances, I think Novus should be looked at again.
If getting a Class IV materia is such a royal PITA, it should NOT be possible to be lost due to some "derp RNG".

keep the Materia, destroy the Alexandrite if you really feel the need to beat your players up.... (at least for the class IV tier), but imho, getting 75 gems and getting 30? ish Class IVs is more than enough effort for a simple item. At least it is for HONEST players.
Sure RMTers just snooze through it and burn a few Euros/Dollars, but systems should NOT be balanced with filthy cheaters in mind!

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Originally Posted by Dwill

It is a statistical impossibility to even think that someone would never successfully meld and should not be taken into consideration. That would be like asking for CRT to a floor as well because someone with 20% has a probability that he could never crit anything ever.While the systems (Novus and Spiritbinding) could use improvements right now, you can't disagree that people are grossly over exaggerating how terrible they are.

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I think a lot of it has to do with cost. There's a serious potential for blowing more $$ worth of materia than a house costs. And well, you saw how happy people were with that...

But no, the potential for some players to get the short end of the stick isn't as bad as atma or overmelding. But it's still another pure RNG system "press button and hope for the best!". They're getting ... old.

Either way, you may have a few hundred thousand players attempting stuff like this. It's very likely someone's going to have a very bad time. Why do that to a player who's paying the same money as everyone else when they can't impact the outcome?

But your crit example actually highlights a better (IMO) way of implementing this sort of thing. Killing something has no bearing on whether you crit or not, you just kill faster when you do crit. So even if someone was so extraordinarily unlucky as to never crit, they would still get the result they're looking for eventually (kill the monster). So you have an RNG factor, but you can still win even in the absolute worst case.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

I think a lot of it has to do with cost. There's a serious potential for blowing more $$ worth of materia than a house costs. And well, you saw how happy people were with that...

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But then the actual problem is the ability to farm Class IV materia and not the RNG melding.
I doubt that anyone sheds a tear when a class III goes *poof*.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

But then the actual problem is the ability to farm Class IV materia and not the RNG melding.
I doubt that anyone sheds a tear when a class III goes *poof*.

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Except the poor :/

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Except the poor :/

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I doubt people that poor would even attempt the Novus stage.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

I doubt people that poor would even attempt the Novus stage.

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Oh....I guess I should stop now then :/ hmmm what to do with 75 alexandrite. well damn.....

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

I think a lot of it has to do with cost. There's a serious potential for blowing more $$ worth of materia than a house costs. And well, you saw how happy people were with that...

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Like Granyala as said, if anything, the problem is not cost as much as it is the difficulty to reliably get Tier IV materias.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

But no, the potential for some players to get the short end of the stick isn't as bad as atma or overmelding. But it's still another pure RNG system "press button and hope for the best!". They're getting ... old.

Either way, you may have a few hundred thousand players attempting stuff like this. It's very likely someone's going to have a very bad time. Why do that to a player who's paying the same money as everyone else when they can't impact the outcome?

But your crit example actually highlights a better (IMO) way of implementing this sort of thing. Killing something has no bearing on whether you crit or not, you just kill faster when you do crit. So even if someone was so extraordinarily unlucky as to never crit, they would still get the result they're looking for eventually (kill the monster). So you have an RNG factor, but you can still win even in the absolute worst case.

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Statistical impossibility should not be considered too much when making a system like this. Yes, extreme bad luck may happen to a few persons and they may cancel their subscription because of it. The thing is that making the Novus much easier to obtain will mean that people will finish it much faster and if the history of MMO as taught anything, it's that if a player doesn't have a carrot at the end of the stick, they stop playing. So financially speaking, it is better for Square Enix to tie their systems to a RNG (a reasonable one obviously and not that it never happened but I have yet to hear people quitting over the Novus phase of the relic so I think it is reliable to a degree).