Lack of End Game Content

They put out new patches every 3 months. They're not going to change things. They openly accept that hardcores will clear out everything right away and unsub.

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Originally Posted by AuraAstra

As someone who plays both FFXIV and WoW, I think the term "endgame" is deceptively subjective.

I have different views on where the endgame lies in both games. For WoW, I see raiding as the endgame. It's literally "the thing you do at the end of the game". It wraps up whatever storyline is going on (sort of), and gives a challenge for max-leveled, high ilevel players. World quests and things like Island Expeditions and M+ are what I refer to as my "WoW chores". They're things I feel compelled to do, not because I enjoy them, but because if I don't do them, then I'll fall behind my raid team.

In FFXIV, however, I don't really see the game as having an "end", therefore I have trouble defining an "endgame" for it. The reason for this is simple: hitting max level/max gear isn't the end. Because I can subsequently go back and level every other job on the same character, that means I can leave low level sidequests alone, and they'll still have value after my main job is at the max. Similarly, there is the fact that I can go back and level other jobs on the same character. I don't have to start over and do the same quests I did to level my first job if I want to give a different role a try. I can have an entirely different adventure or (if I'm feeling lazy) I can just do my daily roulettes for a couple of months (total of maybe 6 hours a day if you include time spent just sitting around in queues for dps jobs) and have a new job geared up and ready to roll by the time I finish leveling it. No waiting around on RNG for gear to drop. And I never feel like the game is "ended".

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Considering WoW is a game that "begins at the endgame", hitting the endgame or max level in WoW also "isn't the end", rather just the beginning. You're applying two different standards to the two games.

You nor I are the guardians of the English language, the community is the guardians of the language, and the community has defined endgame in MMOs to be "max level content". Can we stop trying to redefine the term to suit our prejudices and biases?

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Originally Posted by Kaylessa

Considering WoW is a game that "begins at the endgame", hitting the endgame or max level in WoW also "isn't the end", rather just the beginning. You're applying two different standards to the two games.

You nor I are the guardians of the English language, the community is the guardians of the language, and the community has defined endgame in MMOs to be "max level content". Can we stop trying to redefine the term to suit our prejudices and biases?

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Okay, let's not redefine anything then. We're saying that "endgame" means "max level content", yes?

In WoW, there is only one max level per character. Once you're done with that, there's not much else to do that's really rewarding if you're only looking to do level-appropriate content (the so-called "endgame"). In FFXIV there are 17 combat max levels (18 if you count BLU) and 11 profession max levels on a single character. Now granted you don't have to reach max level in order to unlock the ability to level these other jobs, but the fact is that most people likely not leveling all 29 jobs concurrently, they'll finish the story with one job (reach "endgame"), and then go back and level subsequent jobs - therefore classifying leveling of alternate jobs as "endgame" content because it's something done after reach max level.

I know that people are fond of the adage that "in WoW, the game begins at the endgame", but frankly, that is elitist sophistry. No game "begins" at the endgame. That's why it's called the endgame. It literally defines itself as "things done when you reach the end of end of the game". When you get to the endgame, the game is over and everything left is just... extra.

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Originally Posted by Avraym

There's plenty of overall content in this game, just not a lot of raiding/end game battle content.

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And the developer seems content with that status quo.

Given that, either you somehow find interest in doing those other contents, or you find something to do outside the game, even unsubscribing if you want, and the developer seems ok with that. So I wouldn't get your hopes up at that changing any time soon.

That said, ARR and difficulty aside, Stormblood has 1 more extreme trial than Heavensward and adds 2 Ultimate fights, and it's likely Shadowbringers will have 3 Ultimate fights.

Really? You're gonna complain about lack of content when the expansion is barely 2 months old? Get real speedy.

If all content aside from levelling your main to max level, gearing it in the best gear in every slot, and taking part in Extremes, Savage raids and any Ultimates for the current expansion, isn't End-game content - clearly you haven't reached End-game until you've cleared all that other content. It's still to be done, therefore you're not at the end of the game.

In contrast, if you can reach End-game by levelling your main to max level and gearing it fully, anything you do after that point is End-game content, even if it's chocobo racing.

What you are really saying, OP, is that there is nothing you personally enjoy doing once you have reached max level, geared, and completed Savage. Which is a very different thing from lack of endgame content

Fix eureka then we can end this debate lol

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

Fix eureka then we can end this debate lol

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Please look forward to the next exploratory content. We'll see how that goes. (I quit Eureka shortly after reaching Pyros, so sometimes I regret not being able to attempt a BA run...sometimes.)

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Originally Posted by geekgirl101

Really? You're gonna complain about lack of content when the expansion is barely 2 months old? Get real speedy.

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Has nothing to do with just the expansion itself. This has been a reoccurring issue for years, well before Shadowbringers. The concern is just being voiced now, since it still persists.

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Originally Posted by Elladie

If all content aside from levelling your main to max level, gearing it in the best gear in every slot, and taking part in Extremes, Savage raids and any Ultimates for the current expansion, isn't End-game content - clearly you haven't reached End-game until you've cleared all that other content. It's still to be done, therefore you're not at the end of the game.

In contrast, if you can reach End-game by levelling your main to max level and gearing it fully, anything you do after that point is End-game content, even if it's chocobo racing.

What you are really saying, OP, is that there is nothing you personally enjoy doing once you have reached max level, geared, and completed Savage. Which is a very different thing from lack of endgame content

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Endgame content is stuff you do at max level with your max level character in max level content. Leveling does not count. Even if you have a job at max level, leveling a different job is still filler content. You are still doing dated content below current max level. Chocobo racing, gold saucer in general, they’re filler content. Not endgame, as you do not even need to be max level to even enjoy it. People want more real endgame content. Content that actually makes use of their max level character, otherwise what is even the point of having a max level character with all this nice gear and flashy new skills if you have hardly any content that utilizes it? And wanting endgame content =/= not enjoying or liking some filler content.

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Originally Posted by LadyKairi

Endgame content is stuff you do at max level with your max level character in max level content. Leveling does not count. Even if you have a job at max level, leveling a different job is still filler content. You are still doing dated content below current max level. Chocobo racing, gold saucer in general, they’re filler content. Not endgame, as you do not even need to be max level to even enjoy it. People want more real endgame content. Content that actually makes use of their max level character, otherwise what is even the point of having a max level character with all this nice gear and flashy new skills if you have hardly any content that utilizes it? And wanting endgame content =/= not enjoying or liking some filler content.

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Quoting for emphasis, especially the bolded part. Leveling is not end game content, no matter what mental gymnastics some in this thread do to justify it.