Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

This is incorrect. The math used for that doesn't include the extra cast time of an F4. If you have 2 TC procs you are doing 780 potency in 2 GCD + DOT potency. vs 508 potency for a Fire 4 Cast.
And 2 GCD is less than the cast time of Fire 4. In short take TC procs whenever you can. Multiple is always better. 2 procs is worth losing an F4 for.

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So you're saying that 5 seconds is less than 3 seconds? You lost me there.

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Originally Posted by tjw

and they said they were AS4 BLM

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The general rule is that anyone that starts any "advice" with this sort of comment has almost certainly never set foot in any savage content

I did some notepad math and got these results with 25 second Eno timer:

FTC = full Thundercloud, TC = Thundercloud + however many ticks you'd get

Using TC liberally
T1+B4+F3+TC+F4+F1+FTC+F4+F4+B3+B4+B1 = 4162/32,5 = 128 PPS
T1+B4+F3+TC+F4+F1+TC+F4+FTC+B3+B4+B1 = 4091/32 = 127,8 PPS

Normal usage
T1+B4+F3+F4+F4+F1+FTC+F4+F4+B3+B4+B1 = 4396/32 = 137,4 PPS
T1+B4+F3+F4+F4+F1+TC+F4+F4+B3+B4+T1 = 4366/32 = 136,4 PPS // slightly worse PPS, but more chances for more TC procs

T1+B4+F3+F4+FTC+F1+F4+F4+F4+B3+B4+B1 = 4276/32 = 133,6 PPS
T1+B4+F3+F4+TC+F1+F4+F4+F4+B3+B4+T1 = 4326/32 = 135,2 PPS

No TC procs at all
T1+B4+F3+F4+F4+F1+F4+F4+B3+T1+B4 = 3776/29,5 = 128 PPS
B4+F3+F4+F4+F1+F4+F4+B3+T1+B4 = 3506/28 = 125,2 PPS
B4+F3+F4+F4+F1+F4+F4+B3+B4 = 3236/25,5 = 126,9 PPS // double fast mana tick

Forcing T1 in due to mana or whatever
B1+B4+T1+F3+F4+F4+F1+F4+F4+B3+B4+T1 = 3956/32 = 123,6 PPS
B1+B4+T1+F3+F4+F4+F1+FTC+F4+B3+B4+B1 = 4072/31,5 = 129,2 PPS
B1+B4+T1+F3+TC+F4+F1+FTC+F4+B3+B4+B1 = 3838/32 = 119,9 PPS

Throwing TC at every chance you get while still maintaining AF3 is clearly worse than just using it once per fire rotation. I was slightly surprised that using T1 without getting a proc was higher PPS than double fast mana tick. Don't force a T1 in, if you already had to go B1+B4. Feel free to use TC procs when you have to move or dodge something.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

snip

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After practicing and getting the rotation down a bit more, this math seems to fit along with what I've seen. I think more procs would be useful for a 30 seconds rotation without raging/convert up, especially the one when you use ley lines on its own, as without any tc/firstarter procs you end up refreshing enochian with 10 or more seconds left. Extending your rotation in this way shouldn't result in a lost use of raging/convert, as it's an 8ish second extension per minute, meaning it should increase potency over a fight since you'll reduce the amount of times you go into Umbral Ice.
Edit: the only problem I might see with this math is the fact that it assumes you cast t1 in the previous ice phase, as opposed to having remaining time on thunder from the previous phase. This occurrence is pretty common since you will always need at least one filler spell before using enochian/sharpcast, and you either have time left on the thunder dot and cast blizzard I, or you cast thunder I.

Don't pay attention to that rude person, granted i would not start with Bliz3 but it would not be qualified to be called horrid your rotation. The person that commented is probably someone who has like a level 26 thaumaturge or something and tanks can prob out dps them, lol

The only reason to start with Blizzard is if you don't have a Piety buff, and you don't want to risk getting gipped out of a six fire4 opener.

Thunder1 is also meant to be used as a filler / buffer between B3 and B4, not during prime 'fire' time.

Full Thunderclouds and Thundercloud +12 beat out fire 4. Never thundercloud if it means dropping fire or Enochian. Treat Thundercloud as a Fire4 replacement, when timing Enochian.

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Originally Posted by daman4567

Edit: the only problem I might see with this math is the fact that it assumes you cast t1 in the previous ice phase, as opposed to having remaining time on thunder from the previous phase. This occurrence is pretty common since you will always need at least one filler spell before using enochian/sharpcast, and you either have time left on the thunder dot and cast blizzard I, or you cast thunder I.

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Just assuming you get long mana tick and use T1 as a filler coming from first Eno rotation.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

SNIP

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You've removed an extra F4 from the TC procs.

On the first example used you can go:
T1+B4+F3+TC+TC+F4+F1+FTC+F4+F4+B3+B4+B1 which gives you 140 PPS. (Based on my SS you can do this rotation).

I said for every TWO TC procs you can lose one F4. While I was being a slight but simple in my explanation I was meaning if you get TWO TC's right away you can lose the F4. As there are very few fights you can go right from Opener and stay put and do round 2 enochian without dodging something for fight efficiency sake, it's always better to TC whenever you get it.

To simplify 780 (Double TC)+320 (DOT)/5 seconds of cast time VS 504/3 seconds. You can even add in an extra F4 And two TC procs is still better than two F4's (220 Potency per casting second vs 168 Potency per casting second).
Every TC + 1 DOT Tick is worth more than 1 F4 for total casting time potency.

Anyways, that's my two cents. TC allows running and should be a DPS increase.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

You've removed an extra F4 from the TC procs.

On the first example used you can go:
T1+B4+F3+TC+TC+F4+F1+FTC+F4+F4+B3+B4+B1 which gives you 140 PPS. (Based on my SS you can do this rotation).

I said for every TWO TC procs you can lose one F4. While I was being a slight but simple in my explanation I was meaning if you get TWO TC's right away you can lose the F4. As there are very few fights you can go right from Opener and stay put and do round 2 enochian without dodging something for fight efficiency sake, it's always better to TC whenever you get it.

To simplify 780 (Double TC)+320 (DOT)/5 seconds of cast time VS 504/3 seconds. You can even add in an extra F4 And two TC procs is still better than two F4's (220 Potency per casting second vs 168 Potency per casting second).
Every TC + 1 DOT Tick is worth more than 1 F4 for total casting time potency.

Anyways, that's my two cents. TC allows running and should be a DPS increase.

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Every TC weakens the last Thunder application and has the opportunity cost of F4 + DoT uptime, keep this in mind. It goes beyond what the raw PPS of what you can cast at the moment is.

Regardless of all the timeline talk, TC scenarios aren't strange that often. It's actually really simple.

Priority #1: utilize it for mobility if you don't have a Firestarter available. If you have to dodge and you have a TC, go for it, there are only very niche timings in your rotation that would be detrimental.
Priority #2: multi-DoT. With multi-DoTing the opportunity cost of F4 and clipping issues generally subside and it's a raw gain unless all targets have a TC applied.
Priority #3: Save TC for as late as possible while not compromising Enochian or major AF/UI upkeep. If you can save it until UI, awesome, you just gained some ridiculous damage. If you can't, save it until after F1. If you have to, replace a Fire IV, it is better to replace one of your final two Fire IVs with a TC than it is to drop it, and often you don't even need to choose one or the other.

The three Ms: Mobile, Multi, Milk, in that order. If there are two targets, and it's that time in your rotation, Sharpcast a TC, it's worth it purely because you can rep a B1 with a guaranteed TC.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

You've removed an extra F4 from the TC procs.

On the first example used you can go:
T1+B4+F3+TC+TC+F4+F1+FTC+F4+F4+B3+B4+B1 which gives you 140 PPS. (Based on my SS you can do this rotation).

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The whole thing is roughly 27 seconds from B4 to B4 before SS. Not sure if you can keep the 25s Eno that I used.

Not possible with my 768 SS at least.

Not to mention that taking my SS into account on the best "normal" use scenario puts it into 146.5 PPS.