#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

The issue I would say with lilies was that the bar was so low when they first debuted, any improvement would of been made with huge applause. I still have no idea what they intended to do with the original set.

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The idea was that you could heal more the more you healed, making WHM an HPS powerhouse (together with original Plenary, which was basically a 400 / 500 / 600 potency off-GCD heal on a 15 second cooldown). The more Cure / Cure II you would spam the more off-GCD heals were available to you. But of course nobody was playing WHM in such a way...

Fair enough. If I remember Sebazy said somewhere, this system was very much design for the Gordias and Midas. However, the problem with that was Stormblood was them making the fights wah less intensive and no where near the burden the hw fights were.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

Fair enough. If I remember Sebazy said somewhere, this system was very much design for the Gordias and Midas. However, the problem with that was Stormblood was them making the fights wah less intensive and no where near the burden the hw fights were.

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That's the standard way of how things go, the dev team tends to overcompensate too far in changes.

The best example is how people talked about how hard it was to do damage as a healer back in HW, so they reworked Cleric Stance in SB and made damage spells scale off of MND, which is ok so far, then they deleted a bunch of spells in ShB so the bulk of your damage output comes from 2 buttons, which is now a step too far in overcompensation for a problem that was already fixed after the first change.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

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Conclusion
Ultimately, all this "strike" is is just a message to the community management team that many of us aren't healing in Dawntrail until at least the healer role becomes more fun to play always--not just in ultimate. While many of these points may take time to address, a simple one we can do right now is take the attacks spells we already have on each healer and make them a more frequent part of that healer's gameplay loop. Reduce DOT durations, shorten cooldowns, and disconnect these new 2-minute attacks from their respective buffs and make them available more frequently.

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as someone who mained healer from ARR-SHB then tank from SHB to now.

your tanks could solo stuff as far back as SHB maybe even farther back for high skill floor players, the issues now is that mitigating if you know 50% of your rotation can be done by effectively anyone making it more apparent.

at one point on one tank to solo a boss for NEW content while hitting the mechanics i was seeing for the first time, i had to push my class nearly to it's limits, but towards the end of SHB and start of EW it became vastly easier.

Dark knight can still be tricky to solo a boss with and sometimes depends on how good you are at balancing your timers depending on level and other times it depends on the bosses health.

but regardless being able to solo a boss while level sync'd should not happen, period.

that said, its not just tank mits and such that are the issue, i've also managed to solo bosses as pictomancer without kiting in certain level syncd dungeons.

and as for healer i stopped playing it long ago, because it started to genuinely feel bad to play, i felt like i was useless and not needed and this can be proven at literally any dungeon.

you can clear literally every fight in the game almost without a healer.

the only absolute exceptions are current end game high ends and anything that forces level sync - but even then i wouldn't be surprised if someone makes an FC raid with all dark knights or paladins or warriors or something and runs the high end dungeons down without a healer.

its probably possible assuming they can meet the dps checks and do the mechanics flawlessly

When you really step back……..far the idea behind SB lilys wasn’t actually terrible. Use a heal to get more uses of a different better heal. It was just flawed in every single other aspect (and in a way there are shades of it that actually work like how WAR is encouraged to use fell cleaves to generate infuriate stacks to use more fell cleaves)

Even SCH’s quickened aetherflow is an example of a similar system working, it’s just that WHM lacked the depth in its healing kit to feel like it was building towards anything

The idea behind it was likely inspired by WOW's Holy Priest and their Holy Words CD reduction system.

WOW examples:

For example, Casting Flash Heal or Heal (Cure1/2) reduces the CD on Power Word Serenity (Tetra). Casting Smite (Glare) reduces the CD on Power Word Chastise (1min CD damage with a stun, we don't have an equivalent). Casting Prayer of Healing (kinda like a targetted Medica1, but a lot weaker) or Renew (Regen) reduces the CD on Power Word Sanctify (ground targetted Cure3, bit of an odd one).

But then the real depth in the WOW version of the system is how there's synergies on top of those interactions. Cosmic Ripple is a talent that causes an Assize-like burst of healing emit from you whenever the CD on PW Serenity or PW Sanctify finishes, incentivizing you to keep using them, and then using the things that make them come back faster. Empyrean Blaze causes your Chastise to empower your Holy Fire (a second, 7s long super-strong DOT) to skip its 10s CD and allows it to stack multiple times on the same enemy, allowing you to deal good burst damage with it (if it's safe to spend GCDs on applying it). Revitalizing Prayers causes Prayer of Healing (the scuffed Cure3) to have a chance to also apply Regen to the allies it hits, and those extra Regen procs also count as 'casts' so they also trigger the CDR on Sanctify.

And the biggest one is Power Word Salvation, a TWELVE minute CD that, in FF terms, heals like a Medica1, applies 2 stacks of Excogitation and one stack of Regen, and does this to the entire raid (eg in an Alliance Raid it'd hit all 24 players). Each time you use Power Word Serenity or Sanctify, the CD of Salvation is reduced by 15s. So it's a CDR system on top of a CDR system, and this means that the CD is effectively closer to 4min rather than the full 12min. But because the action has such a long native CD, it's allowed to have such a crazy sounding effect, which increases how impactful it feels when you do use it.

I think that the SB system wasn't a bad idea, in itself. It had implementation issues. First was SE's fear of attaching anything interesting to the damage buttons. We could have had, for example, 'Fluid Aura (if they hadn't removed the damage from it) reduces the CD on Tetra by 2s', or 'Aero 2/Aero 3 DOT ticks decrease the CD of Benediction', but instead everything was hamfisted onto the healing GCDs. Second, was that they tied every Lily spending action, to the same resource (the Lilies), causing the player to feel like they have less agency in what they want the CDR to apply to. It became more a case of 'I use this because I need it now, and if it happens to get a CDR, so be it'. You never used Tetra 'because I want to make use of the CDR of the Lilies', you used it because you needed it at that time, and the Lilies happen to trigger on it. And because the game's combat is so scripted, the CDR on these healing tools was ultimately 'un-noticeable', if you had Asylum planned out to be used at 0:30s, and at 2:30s, it didn't matter if its CD was reduced or not, you were going to leave it ready to use until 2:30 either way. You could literally hide the Job Gauge from your UI and still play just fine, because the system was so... ignoreable. And thirdly, because everything was tied to the same Lily gauge, one 'choice' (if you can call it a choice, since everything auto-triggered the effect if it was available to use) became THE choice: Assize. Because it did damage and the others did not.

Which just goes back to the old talking point: SE's insistence on trying to show that Healers don't need to press damage buttons for any reason ever, is closing a lot of design options off. Rather than trying to make designs that allow for Healers to simply ignore their damage buttons, wouldn't it make far more sense to have those damage buttons (and their interactions) ultimately be 'unrequired' to clear most content (via intelligently balancing their potencies etc.), and then add those small interactions that incentivize (without forcing) the player to at least experiment with dealing damage? For example, if there's a simple interaction of 'Stone/Glare extends the duration of Asylum by 1s', wouldn't that incentivise a player who's normally deathly scared of letting people die to think 'oh, Asylum is down so it's probably safe for a little while, and if I use Stone I can make the Asylum (and therefore the safety time) last longer' at least a little bit?

The objective with Healer design should be to get players to try dealing damage, at least once. Because overcoming the mental barrier and going from zero damage spells, to at least one, is a bigger challenge to mentally overcome compared to any amount beyond that. If you can get a player to start using damage abilities even a little, it would reveal to them how little healing is actually required and how much time there actually is to deal damage, when people aren't standing in orange. And then that opens the way to them saying 'okay, there's actually a lot more time for me to use these damage buttons, and take advantage of their interactions (like extending Asylum, reducing Tetra CD, etc) than I first thought'.

Maybe someone who's played this much longer can answer this.

I've just started getting into healing as a relatively new player, and WHM is a cool class, makes PoTD 51-60 a breeze. But regarding attacks which don't really have a rotation, why is there no water attack?

As a conjurer you do three trials (earth, wind and water) to learn the elements a conjurer/WHM will use to heal and if needed fight. But you only have stone, aero and unaspected attacks.

On the other hand BLM uses fire and ice.

Where'd water go!? SE should add water attacks to the rotation maybe and add some mechanic to cycle between the 3 elements for more damage, using the aero as a weave to proc. Might make it a bit more varied fighting as a WHM. (I can't speak for other healer classes, I've only done a little Scholar).

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Originally Posted by Doomed_Raven

Maybe someone who's played this much longer can answer this.

I've just started getting into healing as a relatively new player, and WHM is a cool class, makes PoTD 51-60 a breeze. But regarding attacks which don't really have a rotation, why is there no water attack?

As a conjurer you do three trials (earth, wind and water) to learn the elements a conjurer/WHM will use to heal and if needed fight. But you only have stone, aero and unaspected attacks.

On the other hand BLM uses fire and ice.

Where'd water go!? SE should add water attacks to the rotation maybe and add some mechanic to cycle between the 3 elements for more damage, using the aero as a weave to proc. Might make it a bit more varied fighting as a WHM. (I can't speak for other healer classes, I've only done a little Scholar).

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CNJ used to learn a button called "Fluid Aura" at that lv15 quest "Trial by Water", a relatively short oGCD that makes you toss a water sphere at your target. Depending on the expac, they did different things because SE kept changing.... or rather, nerfing them as the game grew older. It used to do damage and push-back attack. Later on they lose their damage. Sometime later again they become a ST 6s Bind button. The button was finally removed by the dawn of Endwalker launch. So now you learn.... no water---wait, actually you do learn 'watery' actions but you get them at lv86: Aquaveil but you use them rather infrequently. Maybe if you squint harder, Divine Benison, Thin Air, and Asylum VFXs too looks 'watery' enough? lmao.

EDIT: I'd also argue that we ended up not using neither earth and wind anymore beyond lv72. They're all white sparkly stuffs (Glare, Dia, and Holy). Even the buttons where we can easily be given earth/wind aesthetic for what they do... also don't. I.e. Divine Benison, and Divine Grace/Caress could be earth as a call back to the GCD shield "Stoneskin/Stoneskin II", while Assize & Aetherial Shift could probably be the wind representation as they look 'windy' enough if you squint hard enough lol... but no, they're all just... again, white sparkly stuffs. Not even their SFX suggests so...

Come to think of it, funny how water of all aspects becomes the only one that at leasts 'survives' through the butchering of their conjury root going into this expac, lol.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

The idea behind it was likely inspired by WOW's Holy Priest and their Holy Words CD reduction system.

I think that the SB system wasn't a bad idea, in itself. It had implementation issues.

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With even just the slight changes to the system's procedure, more impactful tuning, and ideally a revision of WHM's abilities (or simply some flat seconds' reduction as well as percentile) to put their CDRs more on par with each other... it actually could have been far more solid than modern Holy Priest, even.

Every GCD heal, not just up to 3 per minute of a certain type that would require additional buttons each, would have given a refund in % uptime-value-equivalent potency, but usable as either offense and/or sustain, all also increasing the APM of said WHM, seemingly making it more intense in healing-intense situations. And since GCD heals were actually a thing back then, that system would actually have some legs to stand on.

Functionality Change: Lilies can be used to "rush" 4s + 20% of any CD (33.3% of a Benison, 30% of an Assize, 26.7% of a Tetra, 24.4% of an Asylum, 22.2% of a Benediction). CDs now show a second radial dial, showing the extent of the maximum time by which they can be rushed and the number of Lilies required to reach that maximum. If a skill is already cooling, one can hit that skill again to spend up to 3 Lilies towards its cooldown reduction immediately, freeing up space to accumulate more Lilies.

...Granted, all that could also have as easily been performed by a simple gauge mechanic spent on, say... an Invocation of <Element> oGCD, whereby one can choose between suppressing (flat + % potency reduction until fully consumed), damaging, or CCing an enemy or shielding+armoring, hasting, or cleansing+healing an ally, based on one's prior action (between Water, Wind, and Earth), or what have you. It shouldn't require 3 new buttons just to provide a bit of raid-buff exploitation --around which to be balanced anyways-- and mobility. Just as the current Lily mechanic following Glare casts of 2 or fewer seconds (providing weave space) could be provided by as little as Misery and an adjustment to Thin Air itself, rather than also needing Solace and Rapture. At least the Holy Priest version has an initial and separate use for its charged-up nuke heals as CDs; ours provide at most mobility that is typically rendered redundant by the 1.5s Glare cast-time or, at most healing intensive, Regen's doing almost double the healing of Solace.

Well, we got the live letter coming but it will just be info and most likely we'll get the big info on job adjustments on part 2. Also most likely if there are any changes, it would be towards the dps.

Edit: My bad on that part.