*Spoilers* Anyone feel joining Emet would have been better

Isn't 'les Asciens originels' merely a reference to the original Convocation members who first held the soul crystals? We know that Amon was appointed as Hermes' successor by Emet during the time of Allag, which is why Amon inherited Hermes' memories.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Nobody can blame Spiggy-Selch, just like nobody can blame you, Rannie-brea. Sorry, your character's face reminds me of Lahabrea-possessed Thancred too much.

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This is Thancred =P

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Isn't 'les Asciens originels' merely a reference to the original Convocation members who first held the soul crystals? We know that Amon was appointed as Hermes' successor by Emet during the time of Allag, which is why Amon inherited Hermes' memories.

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Trying not to reach my post limit today but since theres some confusion.

"When Elidibus was still Elidibus and Lahabrea still Lahabrea, we had collected all of our memories of the Fourteen and committed them to crystal, that those who would take our seats one day might learn. Elidibus would, I was sure, find much within to help him remember─yet he shook his head."

« Elidibus... Tu es sûr que tu ne veux pas jeter un œil à ton cristal ? »

“Elidibus… Are you sure you don’t want to take a look at your crystal?”

À l'époque où Lahabrea et lui étaient encore vierges de toute aliénation, les souvenirs que nous avions les uns des autres au sein du Concile étaient consignés dans des cristaux, utiles entre autres à l'éducation des transmigrés. Elidibus aurait pu à tout moment se rafraîchir la mémoire en examinant le sien, mais il ne l'avait jamais fait.

At the time when Lahabrea and he were still new to all this alienation, the memories we had of each other in the Council were recorded in crystals, useful among other things for the education of (transmigrates). Elidibus could have refreshed his memory at any time by examining his, but he never had.

The English and French passages for 'Ere Our Curtain Falls' are similar enough. Emet is referring to a time when the Convocation still had their memories intact. Both Lahabrea and Elidibus progressively lost their sense of self for different reasons. Lahabrea because his leaps from vessel to vessel left him more and more broken, and Elidibus because he merged himself with Zodiark.

It's worth remembering that the unsundered had no memories of Meteion when they were alive, and yet Amon was able to remember her. This includes moments on Elpis that none of the unsundered were present to witness. 'It was only when I was granted the seat - and memories - of Fandaniel that I knew these visions to be true.'

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Originally Posted by Lyth

The English and French passages for 'Ere Our Curtain Falls' are similar enough. Emet is referring to a time when the Convocation still had their memories intact. Both Lahabrea and Elidibus progressively lost their sense of self for different reasons. Lahabrea because his leaps from vessel to vessel left him more and more broken, and Elidibus because he merged himself with Zodiark.

It's worth remembering that the unsundered had no memories of Meteion when they were alive, and yet Amon was able to remember her. This includes moments on Elpis that none of the unsundered were present to witness. 'It was only when I was granted the seat - and memories - of Fandaniel that I knew these visions to be true.'

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my fan theory that if we had just let Hesperos smooch Lahabrea, none of this would have happened.

LET HOT DRACULA KISS LAHABREA!!!

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Again, your quotes don't demonstrate a 'clear distinction' on the Amaurotians' sacrifices. The final line talks about handing over the planet to the 'new lives' living on the 'new world'. Not really relevant to your claim at all, although people have humorously pointed out that the Ancients obviously weren't planning on handing over the new world to the dolphins. I shouldn't have to keep fact checking you.

I also went back and had a look at that post you keep going on about. I didn't make any claims about what your personal views were. Go back and actually read it. You're not the only person on these forums.

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You're not "fact checking", you're being strangely hostile and condescending over a video game story with an argument that relies upon taking lines out of context. The final section of that quote is Hythlodaeus saying "But there are those who did not agree [with the sacrifices referenced in the previous line], and wanted to hand over the new world to the new lives [as a contrast to the opposing goal that implicitly establishes their nature]." I could just as easily argue that the first 2 sacrifices consisted of random races and not just the Ancients, since the first line only uses the word "people" and, removed from all else, suggests it may very well have been universal.

And if you didn't think I wanted Emet to win, why did you spend a paragraph telling me, specifically, that I could let him kill me and then quit the game if I wanted?

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Yeah. That's why I said that he'd do the exact same thing again if given a second chance, and we'd still be forced to kill him to stop him. You always have the option to agree with him, you know. Just get up to the end of Shadowbringers, die to Hades, and then close down the game for good. Congrats, you're done. You've experienced Emet's plan.

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I'm not sure how else you meant me to interpret this.

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Originally Posted by Lurina

You're told in Amaurot that they intend to sacrifice the "new life" specifically, not any members of their species or pre-existing creatures.

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Originally Posted by Lurina

That when the time was ripe, and the world bountiful with life, they would sacrifice a portion of it to Zodiark...
Such that he might revive those whose aether he had consumed for power, and everyone would once again oversee the world together.
But there were those who did not agree. They believed that it was time for the sacrifices to come to an end, and for them to hand the new world over to the new lives living upon it.

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I've put your claim and the text side by side several times now. Your conclusion cannot be inferred directly from this text. You can come up with your own set of assumptions to try and support it, but they're exactly that - assumptions. I'm not sure what else to tell you.

I'm merely responding to your claims. Your assessment of my feelings is incorrect. We're better off stopping this discussion, though, because it's not treading any interesting new ground and your original post was just bait.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Correct me if im wrong, but they did lose their memories, its just that one of the unsundered used their memory crystals to help them remember.The soul crystals if im not mistaken are from before the sundering.

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The memory crystals were originally created by the unsundered after the sundering to commemorate the Convocation. However, this seems to have been retconned in EW to some extent.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I've put your claim and the text side by side several times now. Your conclusion cannot be inferred directly from this text. You can come up with your own set of assumptions to try and support it, but they're exactly that - assumptions. I'm not sure what else to tell you.

I'm merely responding to your claims. Your assessment of my feelings is incorrect. We're better off stopping this discussion, though, because it's not treading any interesting new ground and your original post was just bait.

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You're spent the last 2 pages defending a supposition that the sundered Ancients retained their memories without anything close to a decisive citation from the game, so even if you do feel that it is not implicit in the section I quoted that the goal to let the "new life inherit the world" opposed to the goal of "sacrificing life" equates to the new life specifically being sacrificed, you probably shouldn't be tearing people down for making assumptions. Or making statements like this:

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Originally Posted by Lyth

The reason why I asked for a citation was because I knew that it wasn't supported by the in-game text. You knew this as well. The reason why the lore discussion in these forums gets progressively more distorted with each retelling is because people like sprinkling in partial truths on their fiction.

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If you go into a story discussion forum with an attitude that everyone who walked away with a different impression of the facts is deliberately baiting through misrepresentation of the story, you're going to get back exactly what you put in. Which is to say, not much.

Why not just farm the aether from the 13th reflection and use that to feed Zodiark enough to revive the lives of the dead? The Ancients can keep the 13th reflection to themselves after that.